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Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

  1. #511
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....you are the one being intellectually dishonest. The better analogy would be you claiming that only 2x6= 12, not realizing or admitting that 1x12, 6x2, 3x4, 4x3...as well as a variety of other formulas get you to 12 as well. Sorry....but you are plain and simply wrong, whether you admit it or not.
    I guess I am debating Pee Wee Herman. I know you are, but what am I? That's about all you've been able to come up with.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Court in Loving meant the right to marry was fundamental, period? If so, the right to marry more than one partner at a time must be fundamental, too. And yet states all have laws against bigamy and polygamy! How can those laws violate the fundamental right to marriage that way, and yet never have been held unconstitutional?
    This is exactly why most people think that polygamy law will fail as well.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    I guess I am debating Pee Wee Herman. I know you are, but what am I? That's about all you've been able to come up with.
    LOL....wrong again. As I have pointed out to you, the law in on my side. If you are hearing the "I know you are but what am I.....you are obviously looking in a mirror.


    Sorry Charlie.....ya gotta come up with something better than that. Why don't you start by picking up a book and educating yourself on the topic a little.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Me? I never bothered with books in school unless they had lots of pictures in them. You, though, must know history pretty well. So maybe you can answer a few questions I had.

    What does the Nazis' killing of homosexuals in concentration camps in Europe have to do with how they were treated in this country? How many homosexuals in the U.S. were given electroconvulsive treatments to try to change their sexual preference? Who performed these treatments, under what authority--and where, and when? I don't see why anyone should care if some unnamed persons at some time thought it was a good idea to castrate homosexuals, or to execute them, unless they acted on that thought. If you're claiming people were castrated or executed in the United States solely because they were homosexuals, please cite some specifics to back that up.
    For crying out loud, it was the law! It is not my job to cure you of your ignorance. But here are some simple facts which are all pretty easy to verify if you actually cared.

    Thomas Jefferson advocated for castration of gays, which was considered kind in his day as the penalty for sodomy was death.

    Lawrence versus Texas in 2003 struck down the sodomy laws in over a dozen states where gays often faced up to 5 years of imprisonment.

    The American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental illness up until 1973 and it was treated with a variety of harmful methods.

    But those are just a few facts. You clearly are ignorant of LGBT history and have no desire to educate yourself. I am not here to play "who is the most mistreated minority" as you appear to be but rest assured that gays have had there share.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This is exactly why most people think that polygamy law will fail as well.
    Maybe. But let's get back to your claim. You weren't talking about what will happen when you claimed that what the Court said in Loving, forty-seven years ago, meant that marriage is a fundamental right, period. You argued that what the Court said way back then meant same-sex marriage was a fundamental right, too, just like traditional marriage.

    But if the Court meant in Loving that marriage, period--between one man and one woman or otherwise--is a fundamental right, why didn't courts start holding laws against polygamous marriage unconstitutional as soon as that case was decided in 1967? And how about laws against bigamous and incestuous marriage--why weren't they all held unconstitutional way back then, too?

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    For crying out loud, it was the law! It is not my job to cure you of your ignorance. But here are some simple facts which are all pretty easy to verify if you actually cared.

    Thomas Jefferson advocated for castration of gays, which was considered kind in his day as the penalty for sodomy was death.
    I keep learning things from you. I never would have known, for example, that if Thomas Jefferson advocated something, that made it the law. But Jefferson was opposed to having a Supreme Court, and yet somehow the Constitution ended up creating one. I wonder how that can be!

    At the time of this country's founding, there was a death penalty in England for all sorts of crimes, even pretty minor ones--but it was very seldom applied for these less serious crimes. And our laws strongly reflected English law. I have no idea which states made sodomy punishable by death, but what counts is how often people were actually executed for it. In Lawrence, which I can see you know about, Justice Scalia, citing an authority, writes that "There are also records of 20 sodomy prosecutions and 4 executions during the colonial period." Four, total, in America during the colonial period.

    Lawrence versus Texas in 2003 struck down the sodomy laws in over a dozen states where gays often faced up to 5 years of imprisonment.
    Yes. What of it? Fornication was a crime in many states even well into the 20th century, too--but that doesn't mean fornicators were commonly prosecuted, convicted, and punished. They were not.

    It's noted in Lawrence that records show there were 203 prosecutions for homosexual sodomy between 1880 and 1995--an average of somewhat less than two per year throughout the U.S. No figure for convictions is given, but obviously not every person prosecuted for any crime is convicted. So the average was one or two convictions per year, and it's doubtful all of the people convicted served jail time.

    The reality seems somewhat less lurid and sensational than the image of Nazi concentration camps you conjured up.

    The American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental illness up until 1973
    Again, what of it? Did the fact the APA took that view cause homosexuals to be castrated, imprisoned, killed in concentration camps, and whatever else was in your parade of horrors?

    and it was treated with a variety of harmful methods.
    Oh, I see. Can't ask for a much more detailed and well-supported argument than that.

    But those are just a few facts.
    Yes--a very few, I'd say. But you did flesh them out with a lot of peevish assertions.

    You clearly are ignorant of LGBT history and have no desire to educate yourself.
    On that, you are right. I couldn't care less about the history of homosexuality.

    I am not here to play "who is the most mistreated minority" as you appear to be but rest assured that gays have had there share.
    Hey, life's rough all over.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Your comparison of blacks' struggle for civil rights with homosexuals' efforts to get laws changed so they can marry each other is an insult to black Americans. Every grievance group that comes down the pike wants to hitch its wagon to the black civil rights movement. As if homosexuals were being lynched, or turned away from schools, restaurants, and hotels, or kept from voting, or denied jobs, or having fire hoses and dogs turned on them. For shame!
    It's only an insult if you think of gays as less deserving or you're completely ignorant of the gay rights movement. Every single thing you list is totally incorrect. Stonewall, Matthew Shephard, "mental illness"/APA, DADT, "DOMA", reparative "therapy", excommunication, expulsion, fired, eviction, harassment of all kinds, blackmail, ostracism.

    Yes, even today in most states, it's totally legal to fire or deny housing based on sexuality. If it's up to you, there would be no progress ever because for that, you need to start by acknowledging there's a problem, which you refuse.

    The marriage struggle itself is no different from interracial marriage bans, except actually it's even worse, since to my knowledge people can be attracted to their own race.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    See what pisses me off is an unelected judge is subverting the will of the people!

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    That is a bit more complicated than "people make mistakes." In this case, and many by the Federal courts, I'd have to call it more than a mistake. Actually, they had quite a while to work on it, so it's more like a colossal, egregious blunder. And that's the point I was making, that our Supreme Court has a history full of this, and will do so in the future.
    It is what it is. You seem to either a) be purposely stubborn to reality or b) have no clue about human nature.

    And yes, the SCOTUS will make mistakes and change their minds, just as Congress has done and humans in general as large groups have done for a very long time, since basically the dawn of humanity. We make mistakes, and grow from there.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Bazinga.
    I've been thinking about the exchange between Leonard's mother and Sheldon ever since "social convention" was brought up in this thread. Amazing how simple lines from a sitcom can even prove someone wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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