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Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

  1. #151
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The tally is currently 41 wins and 2 losses. The losses were a state judge in Tennessee and a federal judge in Louisiana. I posted the pdfs to the those rulings below.

    http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...ing-8-5-14.pdf
    http://freemarry.3cdn.net/f1b2d8bccd..._o2m6bhyfu.pdf
    He was asking about state courts, not federal.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    I don't quite understand how the rights of the minority are in conflict with marriage, speech, or press.
    Well fortunately for society, homosexuality isn't the majority. And the laws are setup right now to discriminate against that minority, however unintentional it may be.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Quick point, nobody is being told they can't get married. It isn't a fundamental right to change marriage to suit your own needs. That's the real issue.
    Yes, I'm not sure how much of the reasoning provided by the court as to why marriage is a fundamental right actually applies to the idea of a same sex marriage.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The tally is currently 41 wins and 2 losses. The losses were a state judge in Tennessee and a federal judge in Louisiana. I posted the pdfs to the those rulings below.

    http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...ing-8-5-14.pdf
    http://freemarry.3cdn.net/f1b2d8bccd..._o2m6bhyfu.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Not anymore...
    "The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for an immediate expansion of same-sex marriage by unexpectedly and tersely turning away appeals from five states seeking to prohibit gay and lesbian unions. The court's order effectively makes gay marriage legal now in 30 states." Court clears the way for gay marriage expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    He was asking about state courts, not federal.
    I'll be the first to admit that all the levels of the courts get a little jumbled to me, so when I hear one court wins and another loses... without the context of the levels, I get a little lost.

    State courts don't really matter at this point because their on the bottom rung as I understand it. And with the Supreme Court out of the picture, that leaves the highest courts the Court of Appeals correct? And if that is so, I'm assuming that (at least) one of them has heard the case, otherwise it wouldn't of gotten a shot at the SC. So on the Appellate level, how many have heard and what's the tally there. Because correct me if I'm wrong but with the SC not hearing any cases like this, their rulings are what go onto become precedent that the lower courts will then cite.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The dumb ones.
    Yeah, but it happens. The last year of my marriage, I can probably count how many times I had sex on one hand. (If I kept count, but it wasn't often that's for sure)

    I guess the point is that they're not watching to see if you are having sex. Except for the legal contract, what's the difference between a sexless marriage and a roommate situation?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #156
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes, they did, but it was subject to the existing state's licensing requirements. It was not a right. And I am suggesting no such thing. I am clearly stating that marriage is not mentioned in the US Constitution but what is, is that any unremunerated rights pass directly, not to the fed to decide, but the states and the people.
    You are citing the 10th amendment.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    The problem with your argument is along came the 14th amendment which put a certain limit on the powers of the states. It states...

    "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    So...the constitution does no specifically mention "marriage" but it does mention "laws" and same sex marriage bans happen to be "laws" and as a matter of argument they happen to be "laws" which deprive certain people " of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" and deny certain people with their jurisdiction "equal protection."

    Now if you need further precedent we have Loving versus Virginia which was the court case in 1968 in which the Supreme Court struck down interracial marriage bans and as the majority decision stated...

    "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

    So to take the "state marriage bans are fine because marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution" argument would mean that SCOTUS was somehow wrong in striking down the interracial marriage bans on the grounds of the 14th amendment. It just is not a historically or Constitutionally sound argument to make.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Same was above, but will repeat for emphasis, If there weren't laws and statuettes on the books giving preferential treatment to heterosexual marriage (like tax and family law), then you would have a point. By making such laws, are they not already involved in the matter? And if they are, how equal treatment not come into play?
    I don't see how that would be true. If so, then the feds would be involved in almost everything. Not that they are not trying to do so. I challenge anyone here to read through the Constitution and see what power the Federal government is actually given and compare that what it has been doing. Then go back and see that there is nothing in the Constitution that grants the Federal government power to be involved in most of what it does.
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes, they did, but it was subject to the existing state's licensing requirements. It was not a right. And I am suggesting no such thing. I am clearly stating that marriage is not mentioned in the US Constitution but what is, is that any unremunerated rights pass directly, not to the fed to decide, but the states and the people.
    NO. An unenumerated right is not a right is flux. There is nothing in the Constitution that states that unenumerated rights shall be purview of the states.

    It just so happens that the Colonial states set themselves up as marriage authority claiming that right.

    If the states can claim 10th amendment states rights on marriage, then the people can claim their 9th amendment right as well.

    The whole of the US Constitution is the people's rights over the state.


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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I'll be the first to admit that all the levels of the courts get a little jumbled to me, so when I hear one court wins and another loses... without the context of the levels, I get a little lost.

    State courts don't really matter at this point because their on the bottom rung as I understand it. And with the Supreme Court out of the picture, that leaves the highest courts the Court of Appeals correct? And if that is so, I'm assuming that (at least) one of them has heard the case, otherwise it wouldn't of gotten a shot at the SC. So on the Appellate level, how many have heard and what's the tally there. Because correct me if I'm wrong but with the SC not hearing any cases like this, their rulings are what go onto become precedent that the lower courts will then cite.
    Several circuits have ruled on the matter, and a couple more are in the process right now.

    And yes, with SCOTUS rejecting the case, the circuit court decisions stand. Every circuit that has upheld same-sex marriage will have marriage equality in all of its states now. (well, I think technically each state has to have its ban challenged, but since the precedent is already set that's really just doing the paperwork)

    Virginia, Indiana, Wisconsin, Oklahoma and Utah just had marriage equality granted directly by this SCOTUS (in)decision. North Carolina, South Carolina, West Virginia, Colorado, Kansas and Wyoming are all covered in the same circuits as the first five, so they have effectively had marriage equality granted, it's just a matter of filing the challenges. Federal judges for those states will be bound by their circuit's decision.
    Last edited by Deuce; 10-06-14 at 05:00 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    I don't see how that would be true. If so, then the feds would be involved in almost everything. Not that they are not trying to do so. I challenge anyone here to read through the Constitution and see what power the Federal government is actually given and compare that what it has been doing. Then go back and see that there is nothing in the Constitution that grants the Federal government power to be involved in most of what it does.
    Only if you take a strict reading of the enumerated powers. Otherwise, "general welfare" and "interstate commerce" clauses leave a ton of leeway.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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