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Thread: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    And your solution is to tax business activity at a higher rate?
    It's not that simple. My solution would be demand side oriented. Taxation on the rich makes very little difference to our economy one way or another. Tax policy on the worker-consumer class, which happens to be the group that is responsible for most of our demand, makes a huge economic difference.

    We should shift tax burden from the non-rich to the rich in a revenue neutral fashion, as to allow the non-rich to be able to create more demand. When demand increases, businesses expand, profits go up, more jobs are created, and the size of our pie grows. this is real wealth creation that can result in a larger size slice of pie for every income class, rich, poor, and everywhere in betwix.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    That qualifies as "spending" then. So any money taxed away from the private sector is then returned to the private sector. The point is it isn't destroyed or removed from our economy.

    Personally I don't think that's the best way to do it, I despise means tested welfare as it only serves to lock people into poverty, but I'd love to see more money being spent to rebuild our infrastructure, and infrastructure investment is the type of spending that pays for itself (over time) because it promotes private sector expansion. If we didn't built the interstate highway system, and sea ports and airports, way back then, our private sector would not be nearly as robust or as large as it is today.
    Then tie this welfare to actual infrastructure projects. Want a check? get to work on I-85 between Greenville and Spartanburg.

    You know that some studies about different places in America were done over the summer about those that collect benefits, and it was shown that in some places total benefit payments collected by people were totaling over $50K per year when added up...I work my ass off for that level of pay, and these people check the mailbox once, or twice a month. So, does it burn my ass? You're damned right it does. But do I think that liberals that use this resource to buy their votes is going to let it become a work for pay project, not a chance.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    It's not that simple. My solution would be demand side oriented. Taxation on the rich makes very little difference to our economy one way or another. Tax policy on the worker-consumer class, which happens to be the group that is responsible for most of our demand, makes a huge economic difference.

    We should shift tax burden from the non-rich to the rich in a revenue neutral fashion, as to allow the non-rich to be able to create more demand. When demand increases, businesses expand, profits go up, more jobs are created, and the size of our pie grows. this is real wealth creation that can result in a larger size slice of pie for every income class, rich, poor, and everywhere in betwix.


    Demand is created by offering things that people want.

    If the people need a device for all of the various and sundry functions and there is none, the demand is still there, but the purchases are not being made.

    In the 90's, that unknown device was the personal computer. When the device was created, not really much demand. There was no "killer app".

    However, then the suite of Microsoft programs came into being and presto, there was demand. The demand created the purchasing and the purchasing fired up the economy and the upward thrust of the economy was begun by the demand that produced the production that added more money to the consumers and the wealth spread across the economy.

    Obviously, the same thing happens whether the boom starts in the tech sector of the energy sector or the transportation actor.

    If tomorrow, an engine was produced that powered vehicles on hydrogen harvested from the air that produced clean, fresh water as the exhaust, every car owner, fleet owner and hobbyist would want one and the economic boom would make the 90's look like the 30's.

    If the product exists to create the demand, the money to buy the product will appear as if by magic.

    Even if the money is available in great quantity to buy a product that does not exist, no purchase will be made.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Demand is created by offering things that people want.

    If the people need a device for all of the various and sundry functions and there is none, the demand is still there, but the purchases are not being made.

    In the 90's, that unknown device was the personal computer. When the device was created, not really much demand. There was no "killer app".

    However, then the suite of Microsoft programs came into being and presto, there was demand. The demand created the purchasing and the purchasing fired up the economy and the upward thrust of the economy was begun by the demand that produced the production that added more money to the consumers and the wealth spread across the economy.

    Obviously, the same thing happens whether the boom starts in the tech sector of the energy sector or the transportation actor.

    If tomorrow, an engine was produced that powered vehicles on hydrogen harvested from the air that produced clean, fresh water as the exhaust, every car owner, fleet owner and hobbyist would want one and the economic boom would make the 90's look like the 30's.

    If the product exists to create the demand, the money to buy the product will appear as if by magic.

    Even if the money is available in great quantity to buy a product that does not exist, no purchase will be made.
    this is not how demand works


    you mistake it for supply side economics
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then tie this welfare to actual infrastructure projects. Want a check? get to work on I-85 between Greenville and Spartanburg.

    You know that some studies about different places in America were done over the summer about those that collect benefits, and it was shown that in some places total benefit payments collected by people were totaling over $50K per year when added up...I work my ass off for that level of pay, and these people check the mailbox once, or twice a month. So, does it burn my ass? You're damned right it does. But do I think that liberals that use this resource to buy their votes is going to let it become a work for pay project, not a chance.
    you think that infant that was not aborted, but was instead born to a single mother, is going to be able to build that stretch of I-85. damn little layabout will sleep most of the time and then eat government provided food from the WIC program. damned welfare baby needs to start pulling his own weight [/sarcasm for those who need the clue]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you think that infant that was not aborted, but was instead born to a single mother, is going to be able to build that stretch of I-85. damn little layabout will sleep most of the time and then eat government provided food from the WIC program. damned welfare baby needs to start pulling his own weight [/sarcasm for those who need the clue]
    Good God you are so dishonest....Do us a favor and don't post anything else until you can be adult about it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then tie this welfare to actual infrastructure projects. Want a check? get to work on I-85 between Greenville and Spartanburg.

    You know that some studies about different places in America were done over the summer about those that collect benefits, and it was shown that in some places total benefit payments collected by people were totaling over $50K per year when added up...I work my ass off for that level of pay, and these people check the mailbox once, or twice a month. So, does it burn my ass? You're damned right it does. But do I think that liberals that use this resource to buy their votes is going to let it become a work for pay project, not a chance.
    I don't disagree.

    I'm all for ending means tested welfare freebies and creating more infrastructure jobs with that money. It seems like money better spent, and instead of locking slackers into poverty with no real return on our tax dollars, we would start creating a culture of working for money, with the creation of valuable infrastructure (leading to more private sector jobs) as a huge bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Good God you are so dishonest....Do us a favor and don't post anything else until you can be adult about it.
    figured you were not up to comprehending the point i was making
    here's a clue. i am typing it slowly, so keep up:
    many who benefit from government assistance do so thru no fault of their own. they may be too young, too feeble, too sick, too mentally challenged, too whatever to pay their own way. yet you ignore them and their plight when you fashion the most simplistic solution to allow them to feed/clothe/house themselves ... by building a new stretch of I-85 between spartanburg and greenville. as if that would be something the very young, the very old, and the very infirm would be able to do. your "solution" could only be found workable by simple minds
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #549
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    figured you were not up to comprehending the point i was making
    here's a clue. i am typing it slowly, so keep up:
    many who benefit from government assistance do so thru no fault of their own. they may be too young, too feeble, too sick, too mentally challenged, too whatever to pay their own way. yet you ignore them and their plight when you fashion the most simplistic solution to allow them to feed/clothe/house themselves ... by building a new stretch of I-85 between spartanburg and greenville. as if that would be something the very young, the very old, and the very infirm would be able to do. your "solution" could only be found workable by simple minds
    And you use a narrow example, and extremes of the system to give all of the others in the majority a pass for grafting every single one of us....And all to lock them into the plantation of poverty for their vote...You should be ashamed...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Demand is created by offering things that people want....
    To an extent, yes. However, there is no lack of companies willing to create things that people want, the profit motive is very powerful, and it exists regardless of anything else, as long as we allow private ownership of the means of production (and last time I checked, we do).

    Production is the natural result of demand. it's like almost automatically going to happen, as long as demand is realized. Someone orders something, and it's produced. someone purchases something off the shelf, and a replacement is produced.

    However, demand is created when people who want things have the means to actually purchase those things. Regardless of how much the owners of the means of production desire to produce, they will not produce more than their customers can actually afford to purchase. So customers with a buck in their pocket is a prerequisite for production to exist.

    If you made widgets, and you were only able to sell 100 widgets a day, would you produce any more than that? Would you desire to fill up warehouses with excess widgets?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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