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Thread: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

  1. #481
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The oil is in Canada and the Canadians will fund a new customer. That's what will happen.
    It still has to be transported. Anyhow, we seem to have our own oil these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #482
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    How many jobs do you think requires to build and repair that pipeline?

    You do realize truckers need to bring in those pipes and people need to dig those trenches and after a few years repairs will need to be made (among other things)..

    Infrastructure does not go uncorrupted forever..
    Not nearly as many truckers which are needed to transport the oil by truck, and they will need to be done for as long as oil is being produced.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #483
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    It is sources such as these that limit the strength of your arguments. What is an unfunded liability? Why is it erroneous to consider it in the same light as debt?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Not nearly as many truckers which are needed to transport the oil by truck, and they will need to be done for as long as oil is being produced.
    The theory is, higher efficiency can lead to lower prices for consumers, which serves as an income effect. The question remains, will the pipeline really have a measurable impact on energy prices?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #485
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    It is sources such as these that limit the strength of your arguments. What is an unfunded liability? Why is it erroneous to consider it in the same light as debt?
    Didn't you know? Every state in the union is trillions in debt due to the unfunded liabilities of paying for infrastructure improvement and educating the young. Kush man...you really need to understand government finances... *sarcasm*
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Didn't you know? Every state in the union is trillions in debt due to the unfunded liabilities of paying for infrastructure improvement and educating the young. Kush man...you really need to understand government finances... *sarcasm*
    I do find it entertaining that members who spout off unfunded liability projections (they are actuarial projections after all!) that only employ the future value of the projected gap. It's akin to comparing the cost of a burger now with the cost 50 years from now. Never, not even once, have these sources discounted the future value to the present, which would allow for a relevant account of how much is owed.

    Take the example of a home loan for $240 thousand. The future value of the loan assuming 30 years of monthly (on time) payments @ 3.8% is something like $540 thousand. Discounting it back to the present value assuming 2.5% inflation (which implies a sunk cost) shows a present value of $257 thousand. The home, in terms of current (not future) income will cost $257 thousand. The future unfunded liability in this regard, is the difference between the FV and PV, or $283 thousand. The present unfunded liability is $17 thousand.

    The partisan right uses big numbers to scare people, not to inform them.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #487
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    It is sources such as these that limit the strength of your arguments. What is an unfunded liability? Why is it erroneous to consider it in the same light as debt?
    For the purpose of objectivity I posted three different sources Kush.

  8. #488
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Didn't you know? Every state in the union is trillions in debt due to the unfunded liabilities of paying for infrastructure improvement and educating the young. Kush man...you really need to understand government finances... *sarcasm*

    California has debt issues above and beyond unfunded liabilities.

    Chasing away their tax base and Bussinesses is only going to these issues worse.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    For the purpose of objectivity I posted three different sources Kush.
    All three sources used unfunded future values as a means to scare the uninformed. You have already been given a clear and cut example why it is erroneous to do so.

    Assuming a geometric average inflation rate of 2.5% (which is more conservative than needs be) gives $181 trillion in future unfunded liabilities a PV of about $24 trillion. Or an additional cost of $990 billion a year, for 80 years, in terms of 2014 dollars.

    Not so scary after all!
    Last edited by Kushinator; 10-09-14 at 01:33 PM. Reason: used 3.8% as opposed to 2.5%
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #490
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    The partisan right uses big numbers to scare people, not to inform them.
    Part of the problem is that even retail investors who are supposedly more knowledgeable in finance lack an understanding of basic concepts such as the time value of money (e.g., http://www.sec.gov/news/studies/2012...tudy-part1.pdf, pp.vii-viii). Therefore, they don't understand the terms that are actually being discussed.

    Another problem is that media reports often focus on headline figures without going into much detail, providing contex or concept definitions, little or no discussion about assumptions, no explanation of differences between actual outcomes and past assumptions, etc.

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