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Thread: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

  1. #471
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If that's true, then you should know that someone has to make the pipe, coat the pipe, haul the pipe, clear the right-of-way, rent the equipment to clear the right-of-way, operate the equipment, haul the equipment, fix the equipment, dig the ditch, build the mats, lay the pipe, cut the pipe, bend the pipe, weld the pipe, x-ray the weld, pressure test the line. Coat the joints, backfill, dress, mop-up and I probably missed a half dozen other stages in the process. We're talking about more than two thousand jobs.
    Yes, 2000 short term jobs. I said that from the get-go. I produced a cite which supported the number jobs created (2,000 short-term for two years and 25-50 long-term). Yes, there will be a bit of a multiplier on that (secondary jobs), as there is from any economic activity. I produced my cite; feel free to counter with your own third party source.

    No matter how you slice, its just not a big job producer. Yes, it will create some short-term and a few long-term jobs... but to talk about it as some type of economic panacea, as many Republicans continue to do, is absolute silliness.

  2. #472
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by FaceofBachmann View Post
    I love the California is Collapsing talking point. The rightwingers keep insisting on it, just like they do hyperinflation and gold prices rising. And of course predictably they are delusional. California is now rolling in dough. It took a while to get over Schwartenegger's ineptitude, but now that there are no Republicans holding any statewide office, the economy is thriving.

    What's wonderfully funny is that you cited a bunch of old articles doing just that -- predicting collapse a year, two years, three years ago. And here is California, with a balanced budget and the biggest economy of any state.

    It must hurt to be so wrong so often about so many things.
    LOL !!!

    Wall of Debt - Unsustainable California

    Fixing California: Report ignores state

    California's Debt to Its Teachers Is Growing by $22 Million a Day | National Review Online


    Yup, California is " rolling " in the dough.....as long as you don't count the hundreds of Billions of dollars of debt.
    The New Democratic Party Slogan :

    " Return to Power By Any Means Necessary "

  3. #473
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, 2000 short term jobs. I said that from the get-go. I produced a cite which supported the number jobs created (2,000 short-term for two years and 25-50 long-term). Yes, there will be a bit of a multiplier on that (secondary jobs), as there is from any economic activity. I produced my cite; feel free to counter with your own third party source.

    No matter how you slice, its just not a big job producer. Yes, it will create some short-term and a few long-term jobs... but to talk about it as some type of economic panacea, as many Republicans continue to do, is absolute silliness.
    There are 15,000 truckloads of pipe involved in this project, and that's a conservative estimate. There's no way there will only be 2,000 jobs.

    I guess we should shut down construction projevts, because those are temporary jobs, too. Yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #474
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There are 15,000 truckloads of pipe involved in this project, and that's a conservative estimate. There's no way there will only be 2,000 jobs.

    I guess we should shut down construction projevts, because those are temporary jobs, too. Yes?
    I'm all for the pipeline, but as far as jobs go, how many long term jobs will be lost because we are no longer transporting that oil by rail or truck?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm all for the pipeline, but as far as jobs go, how many long term jobs will be lost because we are no longer transporting that oil by rail or truck?
    Probably zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Probably zero.
    So you think that if we can't build the pipeline we will just let the oil sit there? Or are you suggesting that the pipeline will be no more efficient than shipping it by truck or rail?

    I can't imagine that we would just let the oil stay in the ground just because we don't have a pipeline, I mean we are already pumping it out and shipping it by rail and truck, I can't imagine why we would stop.

    And if the pipeline is no more efficient that truck or rail, then what's the point of the pipeline? Why would we need one?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So you think that if we can't build the pipeline we will just let the oil sit there? Or are you suggesting that the pipeline will be no more efficient than shipping it by truck or rail?

    I can't imagine that we would just let the oil stay in the ground just because we don't have a pipeline, I mean we are already pumping it out and shipping it by rail and truck, I can't imagine why we would stop.

    And if the pipeline is no more efficient that truck or rail, then what's the point of the pipeline? Why would we need one?
    The oil is in Canada and the Canadians will fund a new customer. That's what will happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #478
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Here's a start:



    Now notice the peaks of the top 10% in 1928, 2001 and 2007? What events correlated to those peaks?

    Also notice that the income of the top 10% is nearly a perfect inverse of the bottom 90%, sort of like a mirror. some people will claim that there is nothing zero sum in economics, but the percentage distribution of anything is indeed zero sum, even if the pool that is being distributed from grows or shrinks.

    The reality is that when wealthier folks acquire a larger percentage of our wealth and income, then less wealthy folks will have a smaller percentage. Wealthy people tend to buy about the same amount of stuff all of the time. Someone like Bill Gates doesn't have to wait to get a raise before he can buy a new car. And wealthy people tend to save a very large percent of their income, sometimes close to 100%. Any time that income is shifted from the non-wealthy to the wealthy, demand realized at the cash register will not be as strong as it otherwise would be, and businesses either contract, fail to expand, or at least don't expand as fast as they could. When businesses aren't expanding, new jobs aren't being created.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaceofBachmann View Post
    Best post on this thread!
    Unfortunately, this is yet another instance of correlation without causation. The years preceding the Great Depression and Recession also saw massive credit expansion, i.e. money created out of nothing through low interest rates and/or trading on the margin. Easy money and loose credit restrictions always create the boom-that-causes-the-bust, and it is always those who are already at the top of the money period who are able to ride the wave from the very beginning. When they all decide to get off, the ride is over, and whoever is still on it is left holding the bag (at this point, it is invariably the middle class).

    Whos Afraid of Income Inequality? - Ludwig von Mises Institute Canada
    Money acts as a medium of exchange but is not neutral in its effects on receivership. Those first receivers are able to bid up the price of goods before any other market participants. As the newly created money flows into the economy, the general price level rises to reflect the new volume of currency. In practice, credit expansion which brings about a reduction in interest rates also increases the amount of time businesses can go without making deductions for depreciation on their balance sheets as they purchase capital goods. Because investment tends to go toward durable goods during periods of credit expansion, there is less funds left over to devote to labor. Profits end up being recorded while wages sag behind. Since credit expansion and inflationary policy go hand in hand in distorting relative prices and must eventually come to an end, the bust that occurs reveals wasteful investment. Recession sets in shortly thereafter.
    Wealthier folks acquire a larger percentage of total income when conditions allow them to (i.e. easy credit). They don't actually cause the following recession, they just cash in on it early and get out while the gettin' is good. Can you blame them?

    If either of you have any link or explanation or argument as to how the wealth gap actually causes recessions, please feel free to post that so we can discuss it.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  9. #479
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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm all for the pipeline, but as far as jobs go, how many long term jobs will be lost because we are no longer transporting that oil by rail or truck?

    How many jobs do you think requires to build and repair that pipeline?

    You do realize truckers need to bring in those pipes and people need to dig those trenches and after a few years repairs will need to be made (among other things)..

    Infrastructure does not go uncorrupted forever..

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    Re: Jobless Rate in US Falls to 5.9% in September, Payrolls Jump

    Hmmm .... let's see .... election in 26 days, right???

    'Nuff said.
    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.
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