Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 46

Thread: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

  1. #31
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,361

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is greed because this effects millions of people, and there is an alternative.
    So greed is defined by how many people are affected? It isn't possible to take from a single person motivated by greed?

    And it is greed because by pushing for a default then they will get most if not all of their 7% back via their insurance. That is greed.
    That is business.

  2. #32
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    11-28-17 @ 04:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,690

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Her real best option would be to privatize lots of government owned businesses, adopt the US Dollar as Argentina's currency, cut down spending, and stop government intervention in the country's economy. In short, stop her Keynesian socialist policies and adopt a free market approach. Its the only way Argentina can move forward.
    Economic policy is a far broader matter than the current legal dispute between Argentina and the limited number of hedge funds. We don't disagree that structural economic reforms would benefit Argentina in the medium- and longer-term, especially as Argentina has had a long record of underperforming economic growth. In part, some of those reforms e.g., financial sector reforms, depend on Argentina's capacity to regain access to international financial markets. One big step in that direction would be for Argentina to resume its Article IV consultations with the IMF.

    Argentina has fully repaid its IMF obligations. Such consultations would provide the kind of transparency that could increasing the confidence of potential lenders to resume lending to Argentina. The second step would entail working out private arrangements with sympathetic countries, starting with Latin American allies, and then in Europe and Asia. The third step would entail asking the UN General Assembly to vote for an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the legal dispute between the hedge funds and its government. Argentina would very likely obtain a favorable vote and the General Assembly has the authority to direct the ICJ to examine the matter and issue an advisory opinion. Those measures would give it leverage.

    Even as the advisory opinion would be non-binding, Argentina would gain leverage. First, if the advisory opinion is largely in its favor, its negotiating position vis-a-vis the hedge funds would be increased and the U.S. Judge's rulings would see less international cooperation and the probability of an appeal within the U.S. legal system would also be increased. The U.S. Supreme Court, which has jurisdiction in such matters might even reconsider its initial choice not to take up the case. Second, if the advisory opinion is largely in favor of the hedge funds, then Argentina would gain the cover to make larger concessions to those funds. Given the complex and technical nature of the dispute, either outcome is a possibility. Either way, a resolution of the dispute would be facilitated.

  3. #33
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Your definition of hedge funds as predators falls right in line with the Argentine president's. Youre pretty much agreeing with her that it was illegal for them to do it. Typical socialist nonsense.
    No that is not my definition of hedge funds.. it is my definition of these specific hedge funds involved.

    And they have been locked out of the markets ever since and have never recovered. So please, spare me the socialist BS. The Argentines have been intervening in every single aspect of their economy and have not curtailed their spending habits thereby continually destroying their economy- its pretty much what happened to Greece and a lot of the other EU countries.
    So much miss-information here that it is laughable.

    If there was any insurance they would have used it. There is no such insurance against government default.
    HAHAHA you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Of course there is.

    Wrong. If Argentina wants to return access to the world financial markets then they have to pay their debts just like all the other nations of the world. Who gives Argentina the right to default and not have to pay off debts? Nobody.
    Again, Argentina has made agreements with 93% of all debt holders on reducing the debt load of old debt and hence improving the situation. It is 7% of the debt holders that are holding out and refusing to do it.
    PeteEU

  4. #34
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    So greed is defined by how many people are affected? It isn't possible to take from a single person motivated by greed?
    No greed is not defined like that. My point is, that a bunch of rich fat cats are willing to destroy a country to get their money back, money that they actually dont need to live off. That is greedy, destructive and frankly disgusting. They knew what they were getting into when they bought the debt from the lender back in the day. This debt is from the last century for the most part, so it is not a shock that they would not get all the money back.

    That is business.
    It is exploitation and should be illegal. Morgan Stanley tried to do it with Greece but were ultimately burned when Greece did not default.. Morgan Stanley help Greece get illegal loans and hide, while taking out insurance on default and then starting a whisper campaign against Greece that ultimately almost pushed Greece into default.
    PeteEU

  5. #35
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,361

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No greed is not defined like that. My point is, that a bunch of rich fat cats are willing to destroy a country to get their money back, money that they actually dont need to live off. That is greedy, destructive and frankly disgusting. They knew what they were getting into when they bought the debt from the lender back in the day. This debt is from the last century for the most part, so it is not a shock that they would not get all the money back.



    It is exploitation and should be illegal. Morgan Stanley tried to do it with Greece but were ultimately burned when Greece did not default.. Morgan Stanley help Greece get illegal loans and hide, while taking out insurance on default and then starting a whisper campaign against Greece that ultimately almost pushed Greece into default.
    Hopefully you will get past your anger some day.

  6. #36
    Minister of Love
    PoS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Oceania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,940

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No that is not my definition of hedge funds.. it is my definition of these specific hedge funds involved.

    Again, Argentina has made agreements with 93% of all debt holders on reducing the debt load of old debt and hence improving the situation. It is 7% of the debt holders that are holding out and refusing to do it.
    Right, because in your warped mind just because they are American hedge funds they are to blame for the mess, right? WRONG.

    Even if these firms would swallow a big loss and accept Argentina's proposal it will not fix the problem. The only reason why the country got a little bump when Kirchner became president is because she went on a massive spending spree that created a temporary bubble, but that didnt last when the debts came rolling in and needed to be paid. So even if they do accept it the country is still back to square one. If Argentina is to recover long term they have to give up the Chavez style socialism and go back to free market reforms.

    After default, Argentina economy falling into deeper hole | Reuters

    In the six weeks since Argentina failed to complete a debt coupon payment and defaulted for the second time in 12 years, the government has restricted the amount of dollars available to importers, boosted subsidies and drawn up proposals to interfere in private companies' output plans.

    "They're clamping down on foreign goods," said 42-year-old camping store salesman Javier Aguirre, gesturing at a single sleeping bag hung on a rack meant to display a dozen. "We are having to place things carefully at the front of the shelves to make it seem we're well stocked."

    Along the Santa Fe shopping boulevard in Buenos Aires, the choke on imports and a sharp decline in consumer spending have driven up shop closures and forced retailers to bring forward sales.

    The leftist government's measures are meant to shore up foreign reserves that stand at less than five months worth of imports and boost consumer confidence to prevent the $490 billion (301.84 billion pounds) economy already contracting.

    But with no signs of a deal to emerge from default and thus no prospect of a return to global debt markets, capital flight has intensified, pushing the peso currency to record lows and fuelling inflation.

  7. #37
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Right, because in your warped mind just because they are American hedge funds they are to blame for the mess, right? WRONG.
    I dont care if they are American, British, French or Spanish... it is irrelevant. It is their actions that is the problem.

    Even if these firms would swallow a big loss and accept Argentina's proposal it will not fix the problem. The only reason why the country got a little bump when Kirchner became president is because she went on a massive spending spree that created a temporary bubble, but that didnt last when the debts came rolling in and needed to be paid. So even if they do accept it the country is still back to square one. If Argentina is to recover long term they have to give up the Chavez style socialism and go back to free market reforms.
    Again irrelevant. First off she aint a socialist per say, and certainly not Chavez like. Secondly by pushing for a default then what will happen? Total economic crash and social upheaval. Is that what you want, to throw millions of people on the fire just so a few greedy bankers can get their money via their insurance? I have no doubt that things have to change in Argentina, but those changes aint gonna happen if the country is being held at ransom by a few bankers while the rest of the planet want to help them.. and that is exactly what we are talking about. They cant make any reforms or get outside investment or anything like that BECAUSE of these greedy bankers. This is a clear cut hostage situation and the world governments should do something about it. No private company should be able to hold a whole country as hostage for profit.. period.
    PeteEU

  8. #38
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Hopefully you will get past your anger some day.
    LOL it is hardly only me.. it is most people in the civilized world. Bankers are not exactly popular and especially certain American banks. And it amazes me that you and other right wingers continue to defend these institutions despite their role (big role) in the financial crisis.
    PeteEU

  9. #39
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,361

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL it is hardly only me.. it is most people in the civilized world. Bankers are not exactly popular and especially certain American banks. And it amazes me that you and other right wingers continue to defend these institutions despite their role (big role) in the financial crisis.
    As you know, we Americans are not civilized. We are working on it, though.

  10. #40
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    As you know, we Americans are not civilized. We are working on it, though.
    Has nothing to do with all Americans but a select privileged few... Most Americans would probably agree with me and the rest of the world on the banking industry...
    PeteEU

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •