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Thread: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by katsung47 View Post
    An international terrorist?
    Her policies are failing and she is playing the anti American card. That is normal in many countries. Schröder did it here to get reelected too. It happens all the time.
    It is one very good reason the US should withdraw from enforcing international security. Whoever does that alone will always make enemies and deliver its foes arguments that raise the street votes and do the enforcers' country harm.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by aseidner View Post
    What a paranoid fool.
    No. She is only utilizing the stupidity and/or poor level of information understanding in the population she needs to stay in power. That is quite rational.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    She's just crowing to her political allies because she doesnt want people to realize the truth: decades of massive government combined with an attitude that debt means nothing and defaulting on that said debt thinking they could get away with it. The EU and the US should take heed of this: incurring more debt and increasing the size of government isnt the answer.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I don't remember a direct take out other than Noriega off hand, but there were probably instances of such and the US certainly supported coups. Those were different times, however, in which there was good reason. I know the arguments against it, but it was war. It was fine. Only the fact, that lots of people only look at the occurrences without trying to understand the logic of the situation, allows it to look seedy. But Allende knew he had declared war on the US. That might have been his right, sure. But it was also okay to have him taken out.

    Now? Why worry about Kirchner, other than the damage it does in people's heads. That could, in fact, become dangerous some day. By then we will hopefully have a global entity to guarantee international security, however.
    My point is, she is using an age old politicians trick to garner support. Today in the US, you see both sides using the same trick. The GOP is using the fear of the Soviets, and every other boogieman to push a security agenda and have been for a long time. This is no different in the eyes of most Argentinians and South Americans. They all remember the US backed Junta that threw people out of helicopters and made 10s of thousands disappear. It might not be true now days (who knows), but it is a very effective "propaganda tool" for the nationalist type politician, which she is.
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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    My point is, she is using an age old politicians trick to garner support. Today in the US, you see both sides using the same trick. The GOP is using the fear of the Soviets, and every other boogieman to push a security agenda and have been for a long time. This is no different in the eyes of most Argentinians and South Americans. They all remember the US backed Junta that threw people out of helicopters and made 10s of thousands disappear. It might not be true now days (who knows), but it is a very effective "propaganda tool" for the nationalist type politician, which she is.
    True. Anyone that fears the soviets is lost in time.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    She's just crowing to her political allies because she doesnt want people to realize the truth: decades of massive government combined with an attitude that debt means nothing and defaulting on that said debt thinking they could get away with it. The EU and the US should take heed of this: incurring more debt and increasing the size of government isnt the answer.
    Actually on this front I do feel a bit for her, as the whole situation around the Argentinian debt stinks big time. The debt was bought up by hedge funds who now are refusing to join an agreed plan to deal with the old debt... they are basically holding Argentina hostage and I suspect that the reason they are doing this, is to push Argentina into a default so the CDS on the debt can be triggered and they are using the US court system to do so which in it self is dangerous as hell. Ultimately who pays for this.. most likely the US tax payer.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually on this front I do feel a bit for her, as the whole situation around the Argentinian debt stinks big time. The debt was bought up by hedge funds who now are refusing to join an agreed plan to deal with the old debt... they are basically holding Argentina hostage and I suspect that the reason they are doing this, is to push Argentina into a default so the CDS on the debt can be triggered and they are using the US court system to do so which in it self is dangerous as hell. Ultimately who pays for this.. most likely the US tax payer.
    The Argentine government wanted to devalue 70% of their debt to these hedge funds so that would have been a tremendous loss on something that wasnt their fault. Of course they refused to go along with that, nobody in their right minds would. And as far as who is going to pay for this in the end, it will be the Argentine people, not US taxpayers.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    The Argentine government wanted to devalue 70% of their debt to these hedge funds so that would have been a tremendous loss on something that wasnt their fault. Of course they refused to go along with that, nobody in their right minds would. And as far as who is going to pay for this in the end, it will be the Argentine people, not US taxpayers.
    That is not what has happened. This is what best can be categorized as predatory tactics by the hedge funds. The hedge funds did not loan Argentina the money, but bought the debt from the lender, well knowing the risk. The other bond holders all agreed to the debt reduction and it was a very small minority of predatory hedge funds that said no and caused this mess. They hold 7% of the debt and are pushing a country into default again for their own greed. I have no doubt, as I stated, that these hedge funds have insured themselves against default and hence that is why they are pushing for it. It was the same with Greece and here it was never called a default so not to trigger the CDS and pour billions into the hands of the predatory American lenders.

    And you have to remember this is not recent debt, but debt taken up decades ago and the economy has recovered relatively speaking and these 7% hedge funds are now deliberately pushing for a default.

    Look at this way.. with the deal they would get 30% of what is owed, without it they get "nothing".. so what is their motivation? The only thing that makes any sense is if they have insured themselves against default, and hence would get more than 30% back from the insurance.
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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    She is an international embarrassment for Argentina.
    Well she is a Socialist.

    That's a substantial embarrassment all to itself.

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    Re: US could topple my government, kill me: Argentina's Kirchner

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    That is not what has happened. This is what best can be categorized as predatory tactics by the hedge funds. The hedge funds did not loan Argentina the money, but bought the debt from the lender, well knowing the risk.
    That is what hedge funds do so there is nothing predatory about it and it is legal.

    The other bond holders all agreed to the debt reduction and it was a very small minority of predatory hedge funds that said no and caused this mess.
    What caused this mess is the Argentine government with their military dictatorships that ran up huge amounts of debt.

    They hold 7% of the debt and are pushing a country into default again for their own greed.
    It is not about greed, it is about survival, a hedge that loses 70% of their holdings will not be in business for long.

    And you have to remember this is not recent debt, but debt taken up decades ago and the economy has recovered relatively speaking and these 7% hedge funds are now deliberately pushing for a default.
    Argentina has never fully recovered. They have been locked out of financial markets because they chose to default like a bunch of deadbeats. If you break the rules then expect markets to push back.

    Look at this way.. with the deal they would get 30% of what is owed, without it they get "nothing".. so what is their motivation?
    Their motivation is that Argentina will hopefully live up to their commitments and pay their debts in full just like everybody else.

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