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Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Just ask yourself if over 180,000 armed U.S. military personnel could not keep sectarian violence at bay in Iraq at its highest troop strength level, how in the world were 10,000 suppose to? But it's not about that is it?
Violence was being 'at bay'! Look at the stats. In 2008 there were 322 casualties. In 2011, when Obama decided to pull the troops there were 54. That was in the entire year!! There were less casualties there than in most major US cities!

iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties

Troop levels or immunity thereof really isn't the issue for most of you. It's the fact that this President wouldn't give in to your perception of "American leadership" or "American dominance". And yet the one time he stands up in defense of our men and women in uniform, the only thing you people complain about is "he didn't give in to another nation's leader to keep U.S. combat forces in Iraq to help defend their country like we wanted." Whaaah!
This is what we have from the Left today.An ignorance of facts and juvenile chatterings. It is a disgrace to the educational system and the country.
 
The U.S. Army considered Admiral Halsey as being a navy bean eating old fart.

i can find fault with halsey, but he has enough redeeming qualities for me to look past his faults. he correctly surmised that invading the island of peleliu would be a waste of manpower.
 
Violence was being 'at bay'! Look at the stats. In 2008 there were 322 casualties. In 2011, when Obama decided to pull the troops there were 54. That was in the entire year!! There were less casualties there than in most major US cities!

iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties

This is what we have from the Left today.An ignorance of facts and juvenile chatterings. It is a disgrace to the educational system and the country.

First off, no one was arguing that troop casualties didn't decrease. However, that's not the issue here is it? The entire reason behind leaving a residual force behind in Iraq wasn't to protect our military personnel. It was TO PROTECT THE IRAQI PEOPLE and train the Iraqi local police and its military. But your argument seems to center around the U.S. military policing the cities and defending the country. So, again I ask "for how long?"

Our troops were already complaining about being both a local police force AND a national security force. So, again I ask "for how long" were we suppose to stay there? How long were WE suppose to defend THEIR country from within and without? HOW LONG?

And I noticed you quickly backed away the President standing up to principle. Interesting when asked if you would have left our troops at the mercy of another nation's laws folks quickly back down from their righteous position.
 
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This board is color blind. I neither know nor care what your color is.

And yet you can't dismiss my point, can you? But to expand on it you have the Chinese fighting for their freedom from the Japanese in WWI, the British fighting against Nazi aggression and tyranny in WWII, even America fighting for their independence during the Revolutionary War.

History is full of battles won at the hand of those who fought for freedom. Iraq's fight against ISIS shouldn't be any different. Just depends on how bad they want it.
 
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i can find fault with halsey, but he has enough redeeming qualities for me to look past his faults. he correctly surmised that invading the island of peleliu would be a waste of manpower.

Admiral Halsey was NOT a yes man.

No half ass military commander from a rifle platoon LT to a five star general surrounds himself with yes men. No competent President/CnC surrounds himself with yes men except maybe for Obama which explains why he's been a complete failure as CnC.

>" One of the most controversial operations of World War II in the Pacific was the 1944 invasion of Peleliu. A military historian has analyzed the circumstances and the personalities involved, trying to answer a question that has nagged veterans such as the one pictured here for more than 54 years.

Few World War II veterans of the 1st Marine Division and the Army's 81st Division ever made sense of the awful sacrifices it cost to wrest Peleliu from a stubborn foe entrenched in the badlands of the Umurbrogol, a moonscape known as "Bloody Nose Ridge." Many survivors consider Peleliu's worst legacy to be that their fleet commander, Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., had recommended canceling the landing at the last moment—only to have the suggestion rejected by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commanding the Pacific Fleet and the Pacific Ocean Areas (CinCPac/CinCPOA). Nimitz has since been excoriated for this decision. "CinCPac here made one of his rare mistakes," observed Samuel Eliot Morison in 1963. Three decades later, naval historian Nathan Miller described the event as "Nimitz's major mistake of the war."

Yet Nimitz made few rash decisions in 44 months as CinCPac/CinCPOA. He picked discerning staff officers, sought the advice of tactical commanders, and hearkened to his outspoken boss, Admiral Ernest J. King, Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Fleet (CominCh), and Chief of Naval Operations. How did Nimitz reach his decision about Peleliu, and upon what information did he base his judgment?

The 72-hour period during 12 to 15 September 1944, essentially the three days leading to D-Day at Peleliu, was a time of significant westward movement by U.S. forces. As one attack force converged on Peleliu and Angaur in the southern Palaus, another embarked in Hawaii for Yap and Ulithi in the Western Carolines, the second phase of Operation Stalemate, and yet a third amphibious unit advanced on Morotai in the Moluccas. Complex as they were, each operation had the principal objective of paving the way for even larger campaigns soon to follow—MacArthur's return to the Philippines, Nimitz's conquest of Formosa or (as some planners were beginning to suggest) Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

The key players were scattered widely. King and the other Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) were engaged in the Octagon Conference in Quebec with their British counterparts and Sir Winston Churchill. Nimitz held forth in his headquarters in Pearl Harbor. General Douglas MacArthur, counterpart to Nimitz as commander-in-chief of the Southwest Pacific Area (CinCSowesPac), sailed with the Morotai invasion force. And Halsey, less than three weeks in command of his newly designated Third Fleet, strode the flag bridge of the USS New Jersey (BB-62) in the throes of indecision.

Halsey had just arrived in the Philippine Sea, linking up with Vice Admiral Marc A. Mitscher, commanding the fleet's principal striking element, Task Force 38..."<

continue -> What Was Nimitz Thinking? | U.S. Naval Institute
 
First off, no one was arguing that troop casualties didn't decrease. However, that's not the issue here is it? The entire reason behind leaving a residual force behind in Iraq wasn't to protect our military personnel. It was "TO PROTECT THE IRAQI PEOPLE and train the Iraqi local police and its military. But your argument seems to center around the U.S. military policing the cities and defending the country. So, again I ask "for how long?"
My argument 'seems to be'??

Let's look at what we have in Iraq now, which was a completely predictable situation,and look what we had in 2011 when there was 54 deaths and the situation was 'stable' and a 'great achievement'. What is wrong with defending the country? Just read the stats of how many Americans, and Coalition members, died winning over places like Mosul and Fallujah and then how easily they were dismissed when they were abandoned and lost. What good did these deaths serve, as well as the billions of dollars, if the winnings weren't protected from what we see now? Why have all those troops in Europe when they were so desperately needed elsewhere?

Our troops were already complaining about being both a local police force AND a national security force. So, again I ask "for how long" were we suppose to stay there? How long were WE suppose to defend THEIR country from within and without? HOW LONG?
If "How long" is your main concern you should also ask yourself about the 40,000 still stationed in Germany, the 11,000 in Italy, the 10,000 in the UK. The troops stay as long as in necessary, that is how long.

And I noticed you quickly backed away the President standing up to principle.
Which President or principle was that?
Interesting when asked if you would have left our troops at the mercy of another nation's laws folks quickly back down from their righteous position.
No troops were to be left at the mercy of another nation's laws. Are you going by what Obama said?? Why not familiarize yourself with the facts before submitting a post? Once the facts are established then it's easy to debate, but if you are using facts known only to yourself then debate is difficult.
 
And yet you can't dismiss my point, can you? But to expand on it you have the Chinese fighting for their freedom from the Japanese in WWI, the British fighting against Nazi aggression and tyranny in WWII, even America fighting for their independence during the Revolutionary War.

History is full of battles won at the hand of those who fought for freedom. Iraq's fight against ISIS shouldn't be any different. Just depends on how bad they want it.

Do you think the British would have won if the rest of the world didn't help them? Did the French or Belgiums win? You are just grabbing at straws here. There have been winners and losers throughout history and home court isn't necessarily an advantage.
 
LOL... take whatever you want, it only shows the desperation of your argument. The facts of the issue have already been stated:

1. Bush's SOFA contained the withdrawal deadline, not anything Obama negotiated.

2. Iraq refused to agree to a new SOFA that continued routine troop immunity, so that was that. You might be willing to send them into that type of legal minefield, but thankfully Obama was not (I doubt Bush would have either).

This tack taken by right wing media is not only propaganda, it is simply stupid.

Also: Iraqi Status of Forces Agreement referendum, 2010 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to what Panetta has to say, he's got a book to sell and I don't think this is the first time he's stabbed the administration in the back. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but at the end of the day he's just giving an opinion based on nothing but his own interpretation, recollection, and version of events. Shoulda/coulda/woulda is not an effective argument.

GWB's SOFA gave BHO freedom of action. BHO declined to use it.
 
GWB's SOFA gave BHO freedom of action. BHO declined to use it.
Alternate reality. Again. What is it that so alienates the right from the real world? Disturbing . . . . .
 
Indeed. And thereby helped bring ISIS into being.

al qeada in iraq became ISIS, and ISIS would not have been so successful if a large group of former bathast party members did not collaborate with the terrorist organization. these Bathasts were the same official's who were in power during Saddam's rule of iraq, and we deposed them and anyone who was part of the bathast party.
 
al qeada in iraq became ISIS, and ISIS would not have been so successful if a large group of former bathast party members did not collaborate with the terrorist organization. these Bathasts were the same official's who were in power during Saddam's rule of iraq, and we deposed them and anyone who was part of the bathast party.

Yes, and BHO created the environment that fostered that.
 
Exactly. Now he owns what is happening there.

if the bush administration had kept the bathast party in power and only removed saddam and his family from power, maybe ISIS would not have found such a large group of willing Collaborators.
 
Barrack Obama did not dismantle the Bathast party, that was something the previous administration did.

He also didn't disband the Iraqi military, which was probably the biggest policy blunder we made in Iraq. De-Ba'athification was something we could handle; several hundred thousand pissed-off Iraqis instantly out of work was not.
 
removing the only remaining structure of iraq's government was a good idea?

we could have worked with them, they were practically the only ones with experience in governance.

They were murdering tyrants. Getting rid of them was a proud achievement.
 
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