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Thread: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The buck stops elsewhere? Where would that be? You may forget a great many things but one thing you should remember is that the Fundraiser-in Chief has been making seriously bad decisions for six years now, to the point where many are asking just whose side this guy is on.
    Your talking points are getting old.
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is a pretty one-sided description of what occured. In fact there was a broad coaltion including Sunni and Kurds forming under the initial Maliki Government, but we (read: the Presidents' action officer, read: Joe Biden) dicked it up, collapsed it, and Maliki had no option but to ally with the Sadrists to make a majority. Then we yanked out early, leaving that element without a curb.

    The idea that Arab Culture cannot adapt to representative government today is no more legitimate than the claim that Confucian Culture could not do so half a century ago.


    Why is it so important to install "democracy"? Especially since every one of America's regime changes eventually ends up corrupt and with a lot of dead. Pinochet was a great example, Panama, and the decision to topple Saddam based on manufactured evidence.

    It's not and never has been about "democracy", but "he may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch."
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    So Panetta was down with all the BS, but now grew a conscience?

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Why is it so important to install "democracy"? Especially since every one of America's regime changes eventually ends up corrupt and with a lot of dead. Pinochet was a great example, Panama, and the decision to topple Saddam based on manufactured evidence.

    It's not and never has been about "democracy", but "he may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch."
    Exactly, again F&L!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    So Panetta was down with all the BS, but now grew a conscience?
    He's a politician. Just look at all the politicians who had their support behind the Iraq war, and the distance they've put between that and themselves now.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    He's a politician. Just look at all the politicians who had their support behind the Iraq war, and the distance they've put between that and themselves now.
    And vice versa on the ones that were against "Bush's war" but now are now in full throat support of Obamas War.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The buck stops elsewhere? Where would that be? You may forget a great many things but one thing you should remember is that the Fundraiser-in Chief has been making seriously bad decisions for six years now, to the point where many are asking just whose side this guy is on.
    I think the president, not unlike his predecessors, has made bad decisions, particularly regarding the ME. As one of the chief partisans on this board (you have competition) you think that everything wrong with the ME is Obama's fault, which is neither objective or factual.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    And vice versa on the ones that were against "Bush's war" but now are now in full throat support of Obamas War.
    I suppose so. But I hope your not including me in the group that supports Obama's wars!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Why is it so important to install "democracy"?
    There are, I would initially propose, three rough tiers why that is important.

    In the immediate, the American Populace will not support an alternative - we won't put blood or treasure for it. Sine blood and treasure are required expenditures in order to defend US interests, however, the support for the exansion of our founding value set is a required prerequisite for any effort which we expect to be publicly sustainable in the face of opposition.

    In the near to mid term, the Islamic world has spent the last century or so looking for a replacement to the Ottoman Empire as a governing venue that would allow them to reclaim their pride/place/self-direction/what-have-you. They tried constitutional monarchies and that didn't work, so they shifted to military-led pan-Arab socialism. That didn't work, so many shifted to Islamist Fundamentalism, which is now in the process of not working. It is in our interest to ensure that A) Islamist Fundamentalism doesn't work and B) the option the region shifts to afterwords is support for some form of liberal governance.

    In the long term, increasing the portions of the globe governed by more liberal and representative structures offers greater security to the US and her interests as well as greater enablement of US policy objectives.



    All three of these tiers, it should be noted, apply broadly to the Anglosphere at large and the "West" that has been influenced by it (such as, for example, Japan).


    It is also the right thing to do.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah. Just because both were nationalist socialist parties [...]
    Here we go again

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