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Thread: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

  1. #251
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, what you're saying is you would have been okay with a U.S. combat troop strength of 10,000 in Iraq versus the 182,060 troops that were in country at the time according to this GSA report:



    Just ask yourself if over 180,000 armed U.S. military personnel could not keep sectarian violence at bay in Iraq at its highest troop strength level, how in the world were 10,000 suppose to? But it's not about that is it?

    Troop levels or immunity thereof really isn't the issue for most of you. It's the fact that this President wouldn't give in to your perception of "American leadership" or "American dominance". And yet the one time he stands up in defense of our men and women in uniform, the only thing you people complain about is "he didn't give in to another nation's leader to keep U.S. combat forces in Iraq to help defend their country like we wanted." Whaaah!

    For all the bowing down, giving in and non-support of the military you people claim this President does I'd think that for once you'd be clad he stood up for something.


    Where did I say I would be OK with anything? Because I am opposed to what is, does not mean I favor someone's arbitrary alternative.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not true. You invoke Clinton as agreeing with Panetta when Clinton believed the Iraq war was a mistake to begin with.
    Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the resolution to authorize force in Iraq.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    More lies from the chief of disinformation. Obama supported the MB against Mubarak, he used Al Qaeda to help topple Gaddafi, and has been pursuing old US policy of regime change in Syria. Very bad Obama policies. But the Islamic State and ISIS/ISIL didn't come into being just because you only heard of them a few months ago!

    The Sunni militants who now threaten to take over Iraq seemed to spring from nowhere when they stormed Mosul in early June. But the group that recently renamed itself simply “the Islamic State” has existed under various names and in various shapes since the early 1990s. And its story is the story of how modern terrorism has evolved, from a political and religious ideal into a death cult.

    ISIS: A Short History - The Atlantic

    The Islamic State (IS; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية‎ al-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah), which previously called itself the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL /ˈaɪsəl/) or the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS /ˈaɪsɪs/; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام‎ al-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah fī al-ʻIraq wa-al-Shām) and is also known by the Arabic acronym Dāʻish (داعش), is an unrecognized state and a Sunni jihadist group active in Iraq and Syria in the Middle East.

    ISIL originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999. This group was the forerunner of Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn—commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI)—a group formed by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi in 2004. AQI took part in the Iraqi insurgency against American-led forces and their Iraqi allies following the 2003 invasion of Iraq. During the 2003–11 Iraq War, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which consolidated further into the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) shortly afterwards.

    Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    None of which would have happened under Hussein's watch! Bush bears far more responsibility for the rise of the Islamic State.
    Do you realize you just justified GWB's invasion of Iraq as an attack on Al Qaeda?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #254
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not true. You invoke Clinton as agreeing with Panetta when Clinton believed the Iraq war was a mistake to begin with.
    Why not try to be accurate when the information is so readily available? To not know that Hillary Clinton voted for the invasion of Iraq suggests such a huge knowledge gap in the entire Iraq/USA history.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0

    Here's more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    By election!
    Single issues Presidential elections are not necessarily a good idea. How about a national referendum?

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    No straw man. You made an assertion and I'm asking you to back it up...
    That is incorrect. I asserted that those who were not allowed to vote by virtue of (for example) being a felon or being dead managed to vote, indicating that the claim that voting was too difficult was bonkers.

    You then attempted to move the goalpost and asked that I demonstrate not that these things happened, but that they were some kind of epidemic.

    btw... if it's so easy to vote, why does it take people 7 hours or so to do it? That's not "easy".
    1. it is not difficult to wait in a line.

    2. However, very well, according to the logic that you have brought to this debate, gosh, those kinds of waits must be everywhere and it must be damn near impossible to vote due to their prevalence. Please "show me the overwhelming evidence of this apparent epidemic in the U.S."


  7. #257
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not true. You invoke Clinton as agreeing with Panetta when Clinton believed the Iraq war was a mistake to begin with.
    already prepping to lie to yourself enough to vote for her in 2016?


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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i am willing to cut Bush some slack on iraq because the thing i am criticizing him for was an unintended an unforeseen consequence of removing a large group of people from power. there are many things that have happened over the course of this decade that have been unforeseen and were not anticipated to happen. Fair enough?
    I"m willing to critique the Bush administration plenty enough over it as well - the actual decision-making process to go to war was atrocious, and the administration appeared to have simply assumed lots of things would work out (much like the Obama administration dealt with the Stimulus bill: just overthrow-Saddam/spend-a-lot-of-money and things will take care of themselves).

    However, de-Ba'athification was a result of a definite need to get rid of lots of tainted officials and demonstrate that we weren't going to simply prop up a new dictatorial system, along with constraints in time and resources.

    But yeah. You are definitely correct on unforseen consequences.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-05-14 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #259
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm not denying the benefits of free societies. I'm denying that US policies are creating any such thing.
    Of course they are not, because we fight the extremists, then at any sign of casualties, we close up shop and allow them to take over. We have been doing this since WW2. In essence, we defeat ourselves and that defeat is on the heads of the Anti-War movement. If we are allowed to use the full extent of our military power, there are very few countries or entities that could pose any challenge to us. The problem is, since WW2, we have not been allowed to do that.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  10. #260
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Democracy is nothing if people dont compromise. It doesnt work for every country.

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