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Thread: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

  1. #241
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    er uh your opinion is required in the Obamacare forum. Anyhoo, Iraq not wanting US troops and refusing to give US troops immunity is not President Obama's responsibility. Thank goodness as a leader he didn't let the inevitable and incessant lies from the right about Iraq stop him from making the right decisions. I guess maliki just assumed he would be as weak willed and easy to manipulate as Bush. He was wrong.
    Ok, lets just think about this for a minute. I mean, actually use the thing you were gifted with, or not gifted with and really think about what you just said. Maliki cant even defeat ISIS and force them to do anything. So if we decide we want combat troops in Iraq, we will have combat troops in Iraq. There is nothing Maliki or the government of Iraq could possibly do to us to keep us from placing troops in Iraq. HE CANT EVEN CONTROL HIS OWN COUNTRY!!! What exactly do you think Maliki would do if we decided to put troops there and one of them breaks a law we don't agree with being a law. Seriously, you think we would be forced to turn him over. NO!!!! HE CANT EVEN DEFEAT ISIS, so how in the heck is he going to force us to turn over a soldier for breaking a law in Iraq. Camon now, I was hoping people would be smart enough to see that both Maliki and Obama are not interested in US soldiers in Iraq and that is why they used SOFA as a scapegoat issue.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Under Bathists... such oppression was far less. Christians existed in peace in Northern parts of Iraq. Jews... don't know. doesn't matter in context of Nazi's putting Jews on trains and then in ovens and gas chambers compared to that not happening in Iraq. Try as desperate as you might, there is no reasonable comparison.
    I'm not as desperate to make the comparison as you are to deny it.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Ok, lets just think about this for a minute. I mean, actually use the thing you were gifted with, or not gifted with and really think about what you just said. Maliki cant even defeat ISIS and force them to do anything. So if we decide we want combat troops in Iraq, we will have combat troops in Iraq. There is nothing Maliki or the government of Iraq could possibly do to us to keep us from placing troops in Iraq. HE CANT EVEN CONTROL HIS OWN COUNTRY!!! What exactly do you think Maliki would do if we decided to put troops there and one of them breaks a law we don't agree with being a law. Seriously, you think we would be forced to turn him over. NO!!!! HE CANT EVEN DEFEAT ISIS, so how in the heck is he going to force us to turn over a soldier for breaking a law in Iraq. Camon now, I was hoping people would be smart enough to see that both Maliki and Obama are not interested in US soldiers in Iraq and that is why they used SOFA as a scapegoat issue.
    did you hit "reply" to the wrong post ?
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Yes, we are fighting for oil, but we are also fighting to free the people from the extremists. I think your inability to understand that a free society will ultimately be economically advantageous to the US. So the argument that oil is the only reason for war, is ignorant. The biggest economic gains America made was soon after WW2 and the Korean war. When the US liberated both Japan and Korea from their rulers and turned them into capitalistic countries that had strong ties with the US, we gained a lot. If we were able to remove the control of the leaders in the ME who are effectively stopping any progress of civilization there, then the ME and the US will profit greatly. All you have to do is pick up a history book and see how we transformed Japan and Korea after their respective wars with us and you will see the obvious advantage of transforming a government from a dictatorship type rule, to our system and then forming strong economic ties with it.
    I'm not denying the benefits of free societies. I'm denying that US policies are creating any such thing.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It is truly amazing that despite all the information available that there are still those too stubborn to understand that SOFA agreements are often designed to end in a successors term in case changes want to be made. The important gain was getting the first SOFA agreement as a precedent for successive Presidents, and Iraqi leaders, to follow.

    Of course Obama had no intention of following any SOFA agreement and said so. His plan was always to 'bring the troops home' whther Iraq was stable or not. As it was he insisted it was 'stable', and a 'great achievement'.
    Yes, bring the troops home because we Americans elected him to do so. If you've a problem with that, as I stated before, get Harper to station Canadian troops there!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    First of all, Im not defending Bush nor the Iraq war or the Sofa agreement signed by Bush. Bush isn't president. Bush was no longer president when the SOFA expired. Obama was president and once he was sworn in, Iraq and the SOFA and everything else that comes with the job of president became HIS responsibility. He didn't do a very good job and could easily be argued to have made matter worse. Second, we don't elect a president to follow the will of the majority. He is elected to lead. And in that regard Obama has performed poorly as well.
    I think Obama's ME policies have been at least as damaging as Bush's. In fact, the general US policy in the ME has been failure for decades.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So what? These are the same people who voted for Barrack Obama? Are you saying that foreign policy should be decided by public polling??
    By election!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Since when does 'the will of the American people' guide foreign policy? They usually don't understand a thing except 'war is bad', and it must be explained what the long term consequence of what any decision might be. That's what leadership is intended to do.

    Again it's clear you know nothing about SOFA and shouldn't even be using the term.
    Since when does the will of a Canadian, resident of CR guide American foreign policy?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    All of which is entirely irrelevant to the matter under discussion.
    Not true. You invoke Clinton as agreeing with Panetta when Clinton believed the Iraq war was a mistake to begin with.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Indeed. And thereby helped bring ISIS into being.
    More lies from the chief of disinformation. Obama supported the MB against Mubarak, he used Al Qaeda to help topple Gaddafi, and has been pursuing old US policy of regime change in Syria. Very bad Obama policies. But the Islamic State and ISIS/ISIL didn't come into being just because you only heard of them a few months ago!

    The Sunni militants who now threaten to take over Iraq seemed to spring from nowhere when they stormed Mosul in early June. But the group that recently renamed itself simply “the Islamic State” has existed under various names and in various shapes since the early 1990s. And its story is the story of how modern terrorism has evolved, from a political and religious ideal into a death cult.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...istory/376030/

    The Islamic State (IS; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية‎ al-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah), which previously called itself the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL /ˈaɪsəl/) or the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS /ˈaɪsɪs/; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام‎ al-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah fī al-ʻIraq wa-al-Shām) and is also known by the Arabic acronym Dāʻish (داعش), is an unrecognized state and a Sunni jihadist group active in Iraq and Syria in the Middle East.

    ISIL originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999. This group was the forerunner of Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn—commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI)—a group formed by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi in 2004. AQI took part in the Iraqi insurgency against American-led forces and their Iraqi allies following the 2003 invasion of Iraq. During the 2003–11 Iraq War, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which consolidated further into the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) shortly afterwards.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam...and_the_Levant


    None of which would have happened under Hussein's watch! Bush bears far more responsibility for the rise of the Islamic State.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-05-14 at 11:22 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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