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Thread: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

  1. #201
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    but he helped influenced the development and founding of the bundeswehr, the west german military organization that replaced the Wehrmacht.
    Yes. Later in the 1950's he provided advice to the new German government. A few Baathists were rehabilitated after a few years in Iraq too.
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Yes. Later in the 1950's he provided advice to the new German government. A few Baathists were rehabilitated after a few years in Iraq too.
    key word there: FEW.

    a large majority of them remained unreformed, and they still had plenty of influence despite being removed from power.

    And why did we have to dissolve iraq's former army and the republican guard?
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Not even close. I'm no fan of the entire stupid ME region over there and their religious zealotry... but Bathists were not Nazi's. They were not doing race purifications and anything close to what the nazi's did.
    yeah. Just because both were nationalist socialist parties who utilized chemical weaponry to attempt to wipe out a particular ethnicity and launched wars of aggression against their neighbors doesn't mean they had anything in common.

    The Arab Ba'ath Party established by Zaki al-Arsuzi was according to Sami al-Jundi, one of the co-founders of the party, heavily influenced by fascist and Nazi ideals. The party's emblem was the tiger because it would "excite the imagination of the youth, in the tradition of Nazism and Fascism, but taking into consideration that the Arab is in his nature is distant from pagan symbols [like the swastika]".[59] Arsuzi's Ba'ath Party believed in the virtues of the "one leader", and Arsuzi himself believed personally in the racial superiority of the Arabs. The party members read a lot of Nazi literature, such as The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century for instance, became one of the first to plan the translation of Mein Kampf into Arabic and they were actively looking for a copy of The Myth of the Twentieth Century the only copy in Damascus was, according to Moshe Maʻoz, owned by Aflaq.[59] Despite his pro-fascist views, Arsuzi did not support the Axis Powers, and refused Italy's advances for party-to-party relations.[60] Arsuzi was also influenced by the racial theories of Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Nazism.[61] Arsuzi claimed that historically Islam and the Prophet Muhammad had reinforced the nobility and purity of Arabs, which degenerated in purity because of the adoption of Islam by other people.[61] He had been associated with the League of Nationalist Action, a political party strongly influenced by fascism and Nazism with its paramilitary "Ironshirts", that existed in Syria from 1932 to 1939.[62]

    Saddam drew inspiration on how to rule Iraq from both Joseph Stalin, a communist, and Adolf Hitler, a Nazi. According to a British journalist who interviewed Barzan al-Tikriti, the head of the Iraqi intelligence services, Saddam had asked Barzan to procure these books not for racist or anti-Semitic purposes, but instead "as an example of the successful organisation of an entire society by the state for the achievement of national goals."[63]
    Nothing in common at all.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    M
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    key word there: FEW.

    a large majority of them remained unreformed, and they still had plenty of influence despite being removed from power.

    And why did we have to dissolve iraq's former army and the republican guard?
    We actually kept quite a few military officers, comparatively speaking. Unfortunately most of the good ones were cashiered in favor of connected cronies by Maliki after US forces withdrew.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    M

    We actually kept quite a few military officers, comparatively speaking. Unfortunately most of the good ones were cashiered in favor of connected cronies by Maliki after US forces withdrew.
    why did we not keep the large majority of soldiers?
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Did we have to remove everyone who was a bathast at the local levels of government?
    We probably didn't - particularly among apolitical/non-security-force government services (such as education) - and particularly in the Sunni areas. Disbanding the Iraqi Army was also foolish.


    However, given the nigh-impossible task in the middle of attempting to rebuild to do a real-time assessment of every local principal and city manager to see whether or not they had ever been part of the abuses, I can understand why de-baathification was the method chosen.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, cpwill.

    I well remember the pictures showing how proud they were to vote! It's a shame that some people here don't even bother ....
    A larger portion of Iraqi's showed up to vote than Americans did. And nobody here had credible threats that if they went to vote, they and their family would all be killed.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    A larger portion of Iraqi's showed up to vote than Americans did. And nobody here had credible threats that if they went to vote, they and their family would all be killed.
    Real freedom means the freedom not to care, sigh.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, cpwill.

    I well remember the pictures showing how proud they were to vote! It's a shame that some people here don't even bother ....
    I can agree with that. If only some weren't working overtime to make is so hard to vote perhaps we'd get a better turnout?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    We probably didn't - particularly among apolitical/non-security-force government services (such as education) - and particularly in the Sunni areas. Disbanding the Iraqi Army was also foolish.


    However, given the nigh-impossible task in the middle of attempting to rebuild to do a real-time assessment of every local principal and city manager to see whether or not they had ever been part of the abuses, I can understand why de-baathification was the method chosen.
    should we have removed only saddam and his inner circle of cronies from power and keep the majority of iraq's government intact?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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