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Thread: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    GWB's SOFA gave BHO a free hand, and he chose not to engage.
    er uh Jack, we know you believe Bush's SOFA gave President Obama had a free hand because you want to believe it. But I'm not seeing a "free hand" with troop withdrawal locked in and an intransigent Iraq demand for no troop immunity. Jack, Iraq didn't want us there. That's why Iraqi officials could only they wanted US troops "privately."
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    GWB's SOFA gave BHO a free hand, and he chose not to engage.
    It ws the first SOFA agreement which was difficult because it was the first Iraq had ever had and the first time the US had negotiated this Agreement with Iraq. Once the first one was out of the way it was much easier to fine tune the second. But as BHO himself said, he didn't want any agreement.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    er uh Jack, we know you believe Bush's SOFA gave President Obama had a free hand because you want to believe it.
    Actually he KNOWS that. as does anyone familiar with the agreement, including Barrack Obama.

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    er uh Jack, we know you believe Bush's SOFA gave President Obama had a free hand because you want to believe it. But I'm not seeing a "free hand" with troop withdrawal locked in and an intransigent Iraq demand for no troop immunity. Jack, Iraq didn't want us there. That's why Iraqi officials could only they wanted US troops "privately."
    I'll take Panetta's word over yours. Sorry.
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    We've spent billions of dollars and a decade training the Iraqi army.
    They wilted at the mere sight of the ISIS.
    I guess we were wasting our time and money....either our training was ineffective or the Iraqis won't fight for their freedom..
    It's their land.....and they won't fight for it.
    Too bad.
    The way I see it anyone who agrees with the idea of leaving a perpetual U.S. military force in Iraq indefinitely is someone who really isn't looking for peace or democracy nor for a sovereign country to stand up on its own feet. You're looking to be occupiers at best, beating the drum beat of war at worse!

    According to Sen. McCain, GWB and some many others on the Right, the counter-insurgency efforts in Iraq was a success if not a quasi victory, but that really isn't true. Sure, sectarian violence was down and the Iraqi military was being armed and trained sufficiently, but sectarian violence continued despite our efforts to secure large swaths of Iraq and despite our efforts to train local and national Iraqi forces to defend their own cities and their nation.

    I understand what the U.S./Iraq SOFA says, that our combat forces would leave on the condition that our Generals were satisfied conditions on the ground, that the Iraqi military could stand on its own, but when the nation's leader tells you they can handle it, the only thing you can really do is step back and see if they've "manned up" and can handle their own problems.

    I get that hindsight is 20/20 and the belief is that had our military remained in Iraq ISIL wouldn't have gained a foothold anywhere in country, but I wonder about that. I question whether or not the Iraqi military would have stayed to fight considering how fast they surrendered their weapons - weapons we gave them! But more importantly, I wonder just how long was our military to remain in Iraq "training up the Iraqi military in the way we wanted it to go"?

    At some point, you have to take the training wheels off. When was that suppose to be? One could argue that the Iraqi military wasn't ready to stand on its own two feet and I'll grant you that considering how fast they laid down their arms once ISIS came to town, but to act as if this wasn't happening in small numbers even while we were their is foolish. So, tell me, just how long were we to stay in Iraq? And how long were we to continue putting up the façade that we hold true to our values of national sovereignty and democracy even when a nation's leader tells us to leave, that they can deal with their nation's security matters themselves? How long?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-04-14 at 07:39 PM.
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh please Apache, you know better then that. If either of them were to be "nice" they would have waited until Obama was finished with his presidency to write books.
    I agree.

    Makes you wonder how much these people believe in honor and fidelity to country. I get the freedom of speech angle, but there is such a thing as "respect for the office of the President of the United States of America". People think that just because they leave their position within an Administration it gives them an opening to speak their mind so freely even while the person they once worked for is still in office. All that does is take us one step closer to being the weakened nation folks within our government continue to claim we're moving towards.

    Don't you see?

    If someone who once worked for the President feels free to open his mouth or publish anything they want in a book that questions or brings doubt about the President's ability to lead, people outside of government, outside our borders begin to believe "if they don't trust their own President, why should we?"

    The mouthpieces are weakening their own government and they don't even realize it.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Just like the Army's Chief of Staff going public that only 3 combat brigades out of 33 were classified as being combat ready last year. That information is usually classified for two years. I suppose the General decided for national security reasons it was important enough to let the American people know how bad things really are.
    But that's not something you tell the American people OR THE WORLD in a book. That's something you tell to Congress and the Joint Chiefs either as you're walking out the door or in a closed national security/defense briefing.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    *snip*

    Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that disagreement between Baghdad and Washington over the issue of immunity for American soldiers from Iraqi law was the main obstacle to reaching a deal to maintain an American military presence in Iraq beyond the end of the year.

    Mr. Maliki also signaled that there would be no compromise on this matter even in further discussions to keep a small contingent of American trainers and advisers.

    "When the issue of immunity was brought up and the Iraqi side was told that the American side won't leave a single soldier without full immunity and the Iraqi answer was that it's impossible to grant immunity to a single American soldier, negotiations stopped regarding the numbers, location and mechanics of training," Mr. Maliki told reporters in Baghdad.

    *snip*

    Mr. Maliki, who clinched a second term as prime minister in December after a grueling election, sought maximum political gain for Friday's announcement, projecting himself as the guardian of Iraqi sovereignty in the face of American demands.

    "This is a huge victory and a massive success for Iraq and its diplomacy and its will and the will of its patriotic political forces," he said in his appearance on Saturday.

    *snip*

    Source.
    So, all you idiots who continue to say that the President and VP didn't fight hard enough to keep combat forces in Iraq can eat it! This was al-Maliki's call and as a 16-year veteran I can say I don't blame the President one bite for pulling our troops out and letting Iraq fend for itself. Even now I can support providing air support to fight ISIS, but unless the Iraqi people are willing to stand up and fight for their own country I WOULD NOT put one combat boot on the ground to fight in their defense (SpeOps notwithstanding).
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, all you idiots who continue to say that the President and VP didn't fight hard enough to keep combat forces in Iraq can eat it! This was al-Maliki's call and as a 16-year veteran I can say I don't blame the President one bite for pulling our troops out and letting Iraq fend for itself. Even now I can support providing air support to fight ISIS, but unless the Iraqi people are willing to stand up and fight for their own country I WOULD NOT put one combat boot on the ground to fight in their defense (SpeOps notwithstanding).
    ISIS seems determined to break down and destroy the entire concept of iraq's nationhood.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You speak of "Iraqis" as though they were all of one mind, that there was no disagreement, no fears, no Islamists, and so on. Why not discuss a topic you know something about instead making such assertive errors?
    He speaks of "Iraqis" the same way people speak of "Americans"...our nation's leader represents "US"....ALL of us regardless of race, religion, sex, creed, age...or at least that's how it's suppose to be.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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