• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

There is something about the idea that "business" is an activity that requires permission that seems wrong. Do we not have the right to engage in commerce or refrain as we see fit? Also to "obey" assumes an act, to not act seems fair with respect to ones own conscience.



Bigots and racists always think that they have the right to practice their bigotry and racism.

But they don't have that right in the USA.
 
No, that wasn't the logic.

We cannot be deprived of liberty without due process of law, this includes the liberty to conduct business and secure private contracts. This right is not like unlimited, but it is secured by the Constitution; the government cannot infringe on this right in an unreasonable, arbitrary or capricious manner.

The "right to be served" is a legal right; it is not secured by the Constitution, but by legislation enacted by Congress. It is a right in the same sense that a lemon law gives us the "right" to a replacement or refund on a bad car. These rights can be taken away as quickly as they were created.

Show me the right to conduct business with the public written into the Constitution. You are assuming that liberty is being deprived without due process. The due process is in the legal regulations of the business license and business laws. There is nothing unreasonable, arbitrary, or capricious about either business laws or business licenses. They apply to everyone and are there to ensure people have fairness, on both ends, when doing business.
 
There is something about the idea that "business" is an activity that requires permission that seems wrong. Do we not have the right to engage in commerce or refrain as we see fit? Also to "obey" assumes an act, to not act seems fair with respect to ones own conscience.

No, you do not have a right to engage in commerce as you see fit. You cannot sell things to people that a dangerous. You cannot lie to people, taking advantage of their extreme vulnerabilities just to make a profit without some regulation.

We are dependent on each other in this society because the vast majority of us cannot do it alone, cannot provide for ourselves independently. We rely on commerce. Which means those who are providing the goods or services must be regulated and held to certain standards in what they provide and how they provide it, to protect the public.
 
Show me the right to conduct business with the public written into the Constitution.
Read the 5th Amendment.

You are assuming that liberty is being deprived without due process.
No, I'm stating a simple fact that when it is deprived without due process, it is a violation of rights secured by the Constitution. This is not controversial or worthy of debate.
 
Read the 5th Amendment.


No, I'm stating a simple fact that when it is deprived without due process, it is a violation of rights secured by the Constitution. This is not controversial or worthy of debate.

I've read it, and she is correct. And we have long standing precedence as well to back that reading.
 
So long as their beliefs don't affect others, nobody bothers them. It's when they insist on pushing their religion on the rest of society that people take notice. If people don't want to be ridiculed for their beliefs, they shouldn't have such ridiculous beliefs.

How is not wanting to make a cake "pushing religious beliefs" on anyone.

If you think gay marriage is wrong, and you want to go your way and others go their own, how is that forcing beliefs?

Its the government saying "oh no, you MUST serve this gay wedding"

The reality is, the gov doesnt give a flip about religious freedom unless its islam or some other non christian religious ideology.
 
I've read it, and she is correct. And we have long standing precedence as well to back that reading.
Link a single case establishing the precedent that citizens have no Constitutionally protected right to conduct business. Just one.

Apparently the liberty our government was founded on extends only to recreational activities.
 
Last edited:
It is hard to see how the government can be allowed to force people to act against their religious beliefs just so other people feel better.


Discrimination is not an expression of religious belief.
 
Discrimination is not an expression of religious belief.

It can be if the persons are trying to force the religious person to perform in what his religion considers a sacrilege. Then discrimination is the expression of religious belief.
 
It can be if the persons are trying to force the religious person to perform in what his religion considers a sacrilege. Then discrimination is the expression of religious belief.

There were many whites that cited religious reasons for believing blacks were inferior, that 'mixing' was a sin, and that interracial marriage was a sin. Someone here posted a long list of the Bible passages they 'interpreted' that way. I'm sorry I dont have it tho.
 
Link a single case establishing the precedent that citizens have no Constitutionally protected right to conduct business. Just one.

Apparently the liberty our government was founded on extends only to recreational activities.

You can't deny service based on race, gender or religion.

And no, such restrictions don't really harm your liberty. Not being allowed to harm others isn't anti liberty. It's kind of a silly argument in saying that it does.
 
If you think that businesses will not have to obey the law I predict that you will be disappointed.

The fact that the OP has to admit that we are running roughshod over the 1st Amendment to get where we are heading indicates rather that "the law as it is enforced" =/= "safeguarding people's rights".


As for the "inconceivable to inevitable" language, I wonder if you realize what you are really saying with that argument.....
 
Bigots and racists always think that they have the right to practice their bigotry and racism.

But they don't have that right in the USA.

Who said anything about practicing bigotry? Maybe you have trouble either reading or comprehending what you read, therefore I'll excuse your asinine remark. However if you continue to insist on calling people bigots without merit, I will have to assume that you are intentionally engaging in gratuitous name calling, worthy of a third grade schoolyard bully.
 
No, you do not have a right to engage in commerce as you see fit. You cannot sell things to people that a dangerous. You cannot lie to people, taking advantage of their extreme vulnerabilities just to make a profit without some regulation.

We are dependent on each other in this society because the vast majority of us cannot do it alone, cannot provide for ourselves independently. We rely on commerce. Which means those who are providing the goods or services must be regulated and held to certain standards in what they provide and how they provide it, to protect the public.

Excuse me, implicit in my remark was the assumption of ethical business practices. The rest of my remark stands.
 
Excuse me, implicit in my remark was the assumption of ethical business practices. The rest of my remark stands.

ethical is subjective
we have every right to operate your business within the law and not violate the rights of others like we all do
 
'inconceivable'?

Is that a pun?

;)
 
Who said anything about practicing bigotry?
Maybe you have trouble either reading or comprehending what you read, therefore I'll excuse your asinine remark. However if you continue to insist on calling people bigots without merit, I will have to assume that you are intentionally engaging in gratuitous name calling, worthy of a third grade schoolyard bully.



Who called your name?

Do you have a reason to feel guilty about something?

If not, why don't you just keep a low profile? :roll:
 
How is not wanting to make a cake "pushing religious beliefs" on anyone.

If you think gay marriage is wrong, and you want to go your way and others go their own, how is that forcing beliefs?

Its the government saying "oh no, you MUST serve this gay wedding"

The reality is, the gov doesnt give a flip about religious freedom unless its islam or some other non christian religious ideology.

Because when you're a business serving the general public, you don't get to decide not to serve parts of the public. Your religious beliefs stay at the door, just like you can't decide not to serve women or blacks or people of other religions. Welcome to reality.
 
It is hard to see how the government can be allowed to force people to act against their religious beliefs just so other people feel better.
Yeah. I mean, my religious belief says that black people are meant to be slaves. It's right there in the bible. And yet the government is allowed to force me to act against my beliefs and actually serve them food at my restaurant. Can you believe it?

/end sarcasm.
 
Because when you're a business serving the general public, you don't get to decide not to serve parts of the public. Your religious beliefs stay at the door, just like you can't decide not to serve women or blacks or people of other religions. Welcome to reality.

Yeah. I mean, my religious belief says that black people are meant to be slaves. It's right there in the bible. And yet the government is allowed to force me to act against my beliefs and actually serve them food at my restaurant. Can you believe it?

/end sarcasm.

Why is it wrong to choose who to serve or not? I assume we don't have issue with something that is NOT in public? Why the difference if we're okay in private?
 
There were many whites that cited religious reasons for believing blacks were inferior, that 'mixing' was a sin, and that interracial marriage was a sin. Someone here posted a long list of the Bible passages they 'interpreted' that way. I'm sorry I dont have it tho.

Bigots will believe anything that the peer group requires.
 
Yeah. I mean, my religious belief says that black people are meant to be slaves. It's right there in the bible. And yet the government is allowed to force me to act against my beliefs and actually serve them food at my restaurant. Can you believe it?

/end sarcasm.

Where is it in the Bible? Not that I do not believe that you can make religions to say anything you want. That is the same with political opinions and even science. The justification of the German extermination of the handicapped was scientifically argued. That is trivial. It is also the reason that the government should almost never be allowed to take sides in an ideological dispute like this one.
 
Where is it in the Bible? Not that I do not believe that you can make religions to say anything you want. That is the same with political opinions and even science. The justification of the German extermination of the handicapped was scientifically argued. That is trivial. It is also the reason that the government should almost never be allowed to take sides in an ideological dispute like this one.

Too bad our Constitution kinda requires that the government take a side on ideological disputes...
 
Back
Top Bottom