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Thread: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

  1. #351
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Where does that nugget of wisdom come from?
    Applied and reformulated sociology.

  2. #352
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Too bad our Constitution kinda requires that the government take a side on ideological disputes...
    And I thought it said that citizens should be free to express their political and religious beliefs. One of the most important ways of expressing religious belief is, you know, not to do things that you consider forbidden by the Religion. Why, we did not even make contentious objectors defend the country. And you think helping a lesbian marry should be forced on these contentious objectors? I think that anyone demanding that has a very odd set of priorities.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Why is it wrong to choose who to serve or not? I assume we don't have issue with something that is NOT in public? Why the difference if we're okay in private?
    Because once you get that business license, you're now serving the public and have to follow a different set of requirements. You have to follow health laws, food preparation laws, etc., something you don't really have to do in your own kitchen.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #354
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Bigots will believe anything that the peer group requires.
    Then that does not legitimize a religious belief that would deny gays service anymore than a religious belief against denying blacks or women service.

    Agreed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Where is it in the Bible? Not that I do not believe that you can make religions to say anything you want. That is the same with political opinions and even science. The justification of the German extermination of the handicapped was scientifically argued. That is trivial. It is also the reason that the government should almost never be allowed to take sides in an ideological dispute like this one.
    It actually doesn't say that they have to be black.

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    Leviticus 25:44-46 ESV / 310 helpful votes

    As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

    Exodus 21:20-21 ESV / 213 helpful votes

    “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

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  6. #356
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Where is it in the Bible? Not that I do not believe that you can make religions to say anything you want. That is the same with political opinions and even science. The justification of the German extermination of the handicapped was scientifically argued. That is trivial. It is also the reason that the government should almost never be allowed to take sides in an ideological dispute like this one.
    Doesnt have to be in the Bible, it just has to be interpreted as such by Christians (if we are using Christianity as an example).

    "For Senator Bilbo, however, racism was more that just an ideology, it was a sincerely held religious belief. In a book entitled Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization, Bilbo wrote that “[p]urity of race is a gift of God . . . . And God, in his infinite wisdom, has so ordained it that when man destroys his racial purity, it can never be redeemed.” Allowing “the blood of the races [to] mix,” according to Bilbo, was a direct attack on the “Divine plan of God.” There “is every reason to believe that miscengenation and amalgamation are sins of man in direct defiance to the will of God.”"

    "In 1901, Georgia Gov. Allen Candler defended unequal public schooling for African Americans on the grounds that “God made them negroes and we cannot by education make them white folks.” After the Supreme Court ordered public schools integrated in Brown v. Board of Education, many segregationists cited their own faith as justification for official racism. Ross Barnett won Mississippi’s governorship in a landslide in 1960 after claiming that “the good Lord was the original segregationist.” Senator Harry Byrd of Virginia relied on passages from Genesis, Leviticus and Matthew when he spoke out against the civil rights law banning employment discrimination and whites-only lunch counters on the Senate floor."

    When 'Religious Liberty' Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia | ThinkProgress
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #357
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Then that does not legitimize a religious belief that would deny gays service anymore than a religious belief against denying blacks or women service.

    Agreed?
    It only requires that believers not be forced to participate in what they conscientiously object to participating in. And it is a real bigot that thinks they should be forced to conform.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It only requires that believers not be forced to participate in what they conscientiously object to participating in. And it is a real bigot that thinks they should be forced to conform.
    So then you support racists excluding races they hate and misogynists excluding women from their businesses?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #359
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Doesnt have to be in the Bible, it just has to be interpreted as such by Christians (if we are using Christianity as an example).

    "For Senator Bilbo, however, racism was more that just an ideology, it was a sincerely held religious belief. In a book entitled Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization, Bilbo wrote that “[p]urity of race is a gift of God . . . . And God, in his infinite wisdom, has so ordained it that when man destroys his racial purity, it can never be redeemed.” Allowing “the blood of the races [to] mix,” according to Bilbo, was a direct attack on the “Divine plan of God.” There “is every reason to believe that miscengenation and amalgamation are sins of man in direct defiance to the will of God.”"

    "In 1901, Georgia Gov. Allen Candler defended unequal public schooling for African Americans on the grounds that “God made them negroes and we cannot by education make them white folks.” After the Supreme Court ordered public schools integrated in Brown v. Board of Education, many segregationists cited their own faith as justification for official racism. Ross Barnett won Mississippi’s governorship in a landslide in 1960 after claiming that “the good Lord was the original segregationist.” Senator Harry Byrd of Virginia relied on passages from Genesis, Leviticus and Matthew when he spoke out against the civil rights law banning employment discrimination and whites-only lunch counters on the Senate floor."

    When 'Religious Liberty' Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia | ThinkProgress
    And what do you want to say? Of course scriptures are interpreted. So? You are just trying to be difficult or something. Anyone knows it has to be a prick that forces a conscientious objector act against his beliefs, where all the prick has to do is throw her party in another venue. That kind of person is disgusting. And to demand the state get involved in suppression of religious or political opinion in so naive of the resultant dangers one can hardly believe it.

  10. #360
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because once you get that business license, you're now serving the public and have to follow a different set of requirements. You have to follow health laws, food preparation laws, etc., something you don't really have to do in your own kitchen.
    I understand that there are laws, I'm not talking about that. I mean, what is the moral/philosophical justification for those laws? I mean, we don't have a problem if these stores were private, and chose only to sell to certain individuals right? What is it about Public, that changes that?

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