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Thread: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

  1. #321
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nope, you'll just be dead like the rest of us. Deal with reality for once.
    That's very nice.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    That's very nice.
    Yeah, it would be, but we have no real expectations that you'll just deal with the way things actually are instead of the way you wish they were in your wildest dreams.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    In the afterlife, the just will be made perfect.
    Perfect is overrated, and that even assumes we can agree on perfect is. I prefer imperfections.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #324
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There isn't one written into the Constitution. Wasn't that the logic behind "there is no constitutional right to equal protection", it wasn't actually written in the Constitution?
    No, that wasn't the logic.

    We cannot be deprived of liberty without due process of law, this includes the liberty to conduct business and secure private contracts. This right is not like unlimited, but it is secured by the Constitution; the government cannot infringe on this right in an unreasonable, arbitrary or capricious manner.

    The "right to be served" is a legal right; it is not secured by the Constitution, but by legislation enacted by Congress. It is a right in the same sense that a lemon law gives us the "right" to a replacement or refund on a bad car. These rights can be taken away as quickly as they were created.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As the Supreme Court prepares to decide the future of same-sex marriage--an institution described as "newer than cellphones or the internet by one justice last year--two things are clear.
    Despite this year's breathtaking string of lower court victories, the battle for marriage equality hasn't been swift or easy. To the lawyers who devised the legal strategy decades ago, the journey has been arduous, the setbacks plentiful, and the battle scars deep.

    And even after the high court rules--most likely striking down state bans on gay marriage at the end of its term in June--the fight won't be over. Another clash looms over the issue of religious freedom.

    Read the article here: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    It looks like this battle has reached an important point.I don't believe that the 1st Amendment will stop this from happening.

    Churches will be able to do what they want to do, but businesses will have to obey the law whether they like it or not.
    There is something about the idea that "business" is an activity that requires permission that seems wrong. Do we not have the right to engage in commerce or refrain as we see fit? Also to "obey" assumes an act, to not act seems fair with respect to ones own conscience.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  6. #326
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    There is something about the idea that "business" is an activity that requires permission that seems wrong. Do we not have the right to engage in commerce or refrain as we see fit? Also to "obey" assumes an act, to not act seems fair with respect to ones own conscience.


    Bigots and racists always think that they have the right to practice their bigotry and racism.

    But they don't have that right in the USA.

  7. #327
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    No, that wasn't the logic.

    We cannot be deprived of liberty without due process of law, this includes the liberty to conduct business and secure private contracts. This right is not like unlimited, but it is secured by the Constitution; the government cannot infringe on this right in an unreasonable, arbitrary or capricious manner.

    The "right to be served" is a legal right; it is not secured by the Constitution, but by legislation enacted by Congress. It is a right in the same sense that a lemon law gives us the "right" to a replacement or refund on a bad car. These rights can be taken away as quickly as they were created.
    Show me the right to conduct business with the public written into the Constitution. You are assuming that liberty is being deprived without due process. The due process is in the legal regulations of the business license and business laws. There is nothing unreasonable, arbitrary, or capricious about either business laws or business licenses. They apply to everyone and are there to ensure people have fairness, on both ends, when doing business.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #328
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    There is something about the idea that "business" is an activity that requires permission that seems wrong. Do we not have the right to engage in commerce or refrain as we see fit? Also to "obey" assumes an act, to not act seems fair with respect to ones own conscience.
    No, you do not have a right to engage in commerce as you see fit. You cannot sell things to people that a dangerous. You cannot lie to people, taking advantage of their extreme vulnerabilities just to make a profit without some regulation.

    We are dependent on each other in this society because the vast majority of us cannot do it alone, cannot provide for ourselves independently. We rely on commerce. Which means those who are providing the goods or services must be regulated and held to certain standards in what they provide and how they provide it, to protect the public.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Show me the right to conduct business with the public written into the Constitution.
    Read the 5th Amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are assuming that liberty is being deprived without due process.
    No, I'm stating a simple fact that when it is deprived without due process, it is a violation of rights secured by the Constitution. This is not controversial or worthy of debate.

  10. #330
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    Re: Gay marriage, once inconceivable, now appears inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Read the 5th Amendment.


    No, I'm stating a simple fact that when it is deprived without due process, it is a violation of rights secured by the Constitution. This is not controversial or worthy of debate.
    I've read it, and she is correct. And we have long standing precedence as well to back that reading.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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