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Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial[W:292]

Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Really?
While overall conviction statistics, by sheer number of convictions, would suggest folks are getting railroaded, as well as studies that show some folks cop to crimes they haven't committed, as well as the Innocence Project showing that folks are convicted when they haven't committed a crime, I don't think any one has ever done a study to see if this is happening specifically to white folks.
But if it is happening to black folks, then it is happening to folks who aren't black as well, which would include white folks.

Btw, the Innocence Project on it's own says your assertion is false.

It isn't that someone is out to railroad anybody, it is the nature of the system.
Once a person is accused, the deck is stacked against them. No matter their race.

Those are a lot of general statements, but fair enough IMO. And if someone wants to make a general case about occasional or frequent abuses by prosecutors, I'm not going to disagree, but from getting stopped by police, then potentially going in front of a prosecutor who decides whether to press charges, and if charged in front of a judge and jury, I would rather be a white male than any other possible demographic in the U.S. in every single step of that process.

And Crue Cab made this explicitly about race, and I was responding to his very SPECIFIC claim, not the more general claim you're presenting - this statement, "Shoot a black person as a white person your odds of claiming SD and prevailing are zero."
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Those are a lot of general statements, but fair enough IMO. And if someone wants to make a general case about occasional or frequent abuses by prosecutors, I'm not going to disagree, but from getting stopped by police, then potentially going in front of a prosecutor who decides whether to press charges, and if charged in front of a judge and jury, I would rather be a white male than any other possible demographic in the U.S. in every single step of that process.

And Crue Cab made this explicitly about race, and I was responding to his very SPECIFIC claim, not the more general claim you're presenting - this statement, "Shoot a black person as a white person your odds of claiming SD and prevailing are zero."

I made nothing about "race" only reminding you of the circumstances going on in our country. Think Zimmerman will ever have a normal life, or the whole city of Ferguson?
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

You miss my point, one I have made many times before on here about SD shootings.

If you want to make a general claim about self defense shootings, don't make a specific claim involving only WHITE men who shoot BLACK men.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I made nothing about "race" only reminding you of the circumstances going on in our country. Think Zimmerman will ever have a normal life, or the whole city of Ferguson?

????? It's right there, and bolded and underlined for your convenience.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

How about putting an end to violence, period? Geesh.

because reality exist and not some dream land utopia.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

It quacks like a duck - a duck that's a moron. :roll:

This is stupid. It is. It's like fighting with somebody because grass is green.

View attachment 67173846

I thought the expression was "If it storms like a front".
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

No you weren't.
You were talking about what a Judge could do in the performance of their duties during a trial.
You made a blanket statement that was false.
Their duties includes Jury trials, but is not limited to.

As every one can see, you said "a trial". Not a jury trial.

Your statement was wrong and it was your failure for not being specific.


But since you want to be dishonest and deflect, when all I did was point out for clarification purposes, go ahead. Everybody can see what you are doing.

Oh please.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Oh please.
Yes. You are welcome.
You should really endeavor to keep what you say specific and accurate.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Yes. You are welcome.
You should really endeavor to keep what you say specific and accurate.

You should endeavor to read and keep up with a conversation so that your posts don't reflect foolishness in the future.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

You should endeavor to read and keep up with a conversation so that your posts don't reflect foolishness in the future.
As that didn't happen, you are the only one to blame for not being specific and making false statements.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

So you were an eye witness.

So now you are saying the Defense is lying, too? :lol: You believe the Prosecution is lying, of course - but now the Defense is lying, too? Because the Defense argued that the SUV left to get rid of the weapon. Now they didn't?

Is anybody telling the truth in this trial? :lol:

Gosh darn it, I'll bet they wish they'd had you there, to tell them where to squat and lean. Quite honestly, it's a miracle they were able tie their shoes in the morning without you.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Those are a lot of general statements, but fair enough IMO.
Of course they are, as I know of no studies done specifically about white folks.


And if someone wants to make a general case about occasional or frequent abuses by prosecutors, I'm not going to disagree,
I wouldn't disagree either. It happens.
The Law books are replete with examples of Prosecutorial misconduct/shenanigans that they get away with it.
Like I said. The deck is stacked against a person, even more so once convicted.


but from getting stopped by police, then potentially going in front of a prosecutor who decides whether to press charges, and if charged in front of a judge and jury, I would rather be a white male than any other possible demographic in the U.S. in every single step of that process.
Well you are skipping a lot of detail and steps there.
You simply don't get pulled over and then prosecuted. (And as previously noted, once you are charged the deck is stacked against the person regardless of color.)
And most stops result in what? Nothing happening because the person knows how to properly conduct their self?
While those who don't, seem to cause their own problems regardless of color. You know, like those on Youtube who don't like those boarder patrol checkpoints.
So while there is always the exception to the rule, and while you may prefer to be white in certain circumstances, it has more to do how a person conducts their self in such situations.

As for the exceptions...
If one wishes to focuses on the exceptions they will see what they want to see, that is their problem, as they do not represent the system as a whole.
Now I am not saying that the actions of LE in those exceptions were correct, but many of those exceptions are fueled by the persons conduct to start with.


And Crue Cab made this explicitly about race, and I was responding to his very SPECIFIC claim, not the more general claim you're presenting - this statement, "Shoot a black person as a white person your odds of claiming SD and prevailing are zero."
And? I didn't make comment to that.
I commented on your specific and statement of:
There is simply no evidence that white men in America are getting railroaded in any way by the justice system.
Which is false on it surface because there is evidence that white men are railroaded.
Like I said, the Innocence Project it's self disproves your assertion.

So again.
It isn't that someone is out to railroad anybody, it is the nature of the system.
Once a person is accused, the deck is stacked against them. No matter their race.



I also noticed that you hadn't responded to the following.
Is that because you were only seeing what you wanted to in those numbers? :shrug:

That's true, but misses the underlying pattern:

White on white - 2,614
White on black - 193
Black on black - 2,412
Black on white - 431

Mostly, whites kill other whites and blacks kill other blacks.


Which misses the other underlying pattern.
Demographics.
Whites = 223,553,265 or 72.4 % of the population.
African Americans = 38,929,319 or 12.6 % of the population.
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Percentages of their respective population is the real indicator.

By respective percentages of population, Blacks on a whole engage in such activity far more (multiple times more) than whites do.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

So now you are saying the Defense is lying, too? :lol: You believe the Prosecution is lying, of course - but now the Defense is lying, too? Because the Defense argued that the SUV left to get rid of the weapon. Now they didn't?

Is anybody telling the truth in this trial? :lol:

Gosh darn it, I'll bet they wish they'd had you there, to tell them where to squat and lean. Quite honestly, it's a miracle they were able tie their shoes in the morning without you.
I think they are telling their versions of the truth.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

He already had over 60 years (minimum) coming on the prior convictions. It is nice to know that one cannot be preemptively executed because someone thinks that they might have had a gun.

I personally do not think he ever thought the kid had a gun. He never mentioned it once when he was first interrogated by police after fleeing 200 miles. He only claims he saw a gun at trial, possibly at the advice of his attorney but I have no way of knowing for sure.

He'd been drinking hard liquor all afternoon. He pulled into a gas station/convenience store to get some more alcohol. Another vehicle was parked next to him playing loud rap music. He hates rap music according to the sworn testimony of his girlfriend. He asked the occupants to turn it down. They initially did but one of the occupants in a conversation with another occupant told him to turn it back up calling Mr. Dunn disrespectful words to each other but never directly addressing Mr. Dunn. Mr. Dunn overhears it and initiates another conversation with the occupants asking "Are you talking about me?" It was at that time the victim verbally replied with more disrespectful language. Mr. Dunn reacted by executing the teen and attempting to execute every teen in the vehicle with about a dozen shots fired into the vehicle mostly from almost point blank range but paused as the car attempted to speed out of harms way then continued firing more rounds.

Mr. Dunn then drives off saying he never contacted police or an ambulance because he honestly didn't think anybody was hit by one of his dozen bullets fired at point blank range. The next morning when he heard on the news that he'd kill someone he decided to just go home traveling almost 200 miles away. He says It was because he preferred talking with his home town police because of his standing in the community there. However he never contacted police himself; unknown to him his license plate and make and model was documented and police contacted him.
 
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Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I personally do not think he ever thought the kid had a gun. He never mentioned it once when he was first interrogated by people after fleeing 200 miles. He only mentioned he said he saw a gun at trial, possibly at the advice of his attorney but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Wrong.


He'd been drinking hard liquor all afternoon.
Wrong.


Mr. Dunn reacted by executing the teen and attempting to execute every teen in the vehicle
Exaggerated nonsense.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial


I stand corrected. He never claimed he saw a gun to his girlfriend, not investigators. Thank you.


Michael Dunn and his live-in girlfriend Rhonda Rouer parked next to the SUV. The two had just attended the wedding reception of Dunn's son. Rouer told police that Dunn had three rum drinks before driving. Dunn and Rouer were driving back to their hotel nearby when they stopped at the GATE for wine
.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story...chael-dunn-jordan-davis-murder-trial/4803135/


Exaggerated nonsense.

According to the jury.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Rouer told police that Dunn had three rum drinks before driving. Dunn and Rouer were driving back to their hotel nearby when they stopped at the GATE for wine[/I].

And what she was probably saying was: "three that I personally saw". Even though there are indications that Roeur had gotten tired of Dunn (Dunn evidently had a habit of causing peole to get tired of him), she was probably not going out of her way to testify against her boyfriend either.

In short, I bet Dunn was not only a bully by nature and not only armed, but he was also drunk and.... had been "diss'ed"- maybe even where his chick could see it.

That is a bad combination- does not matter whether the person in question is a upper middle class software developer, or an inner city / barrio twenty something year old.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

As that didn't happen, you are the only one to blame for not being specific and making false statements.

Right: it didn't happen that you kept up with the conversation. What DID happen is that you thought you found some sort of hole that you could use to try and make wrong.

(chuckle)
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I stand corrected. He never claimed he saw a gun to his girlfriend, not investigators. Thank you.
Wrong again.
He says he told her. She doesn't remember being told.
And we saw how fragile she was on the stand. She isn't of sound mind.
Her not remembering means diddly squat.


Michael Dunn and his live-in girlfriend Rhonda Rouer parked next to the SUV. The two had just attended the wedding reception of Dunn's son. Rouer told police that Dunn had three rum drinks before driving. Dunn and Rouer were driving back to their hotel nearby when they stopped at the GATE for wine.
Dunn Trial: What you need to know
:doh



Three small weak mixed drinks, is not the same as "drinking hard liquor all afternoon" as you initially claimed.
There is a difference.

And the wine was for her.

According to the jury.
:naughty
No, that isn't according to the jury.
That is you making things up based off of a jury's legal determination.
The evidence says that Dunn reacted to a threat against this life.
Even claiming he was attempting to execute every teen in the vehicle is bs. As he was firing at the threat, Davis. Not Davis's friends.
 
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Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Right: it didn't happen that you kept up with the conversation. What DID happen is that you thought you found some sort of hole that you could use to try and make wrong.

(chuckle)
You keep digging yourself even further. Figures.
What do you not understand about "for clarification purposes"?
So keep digging.

Here is that original false statement again.
The jury decided on his guilt. A judge can't do that in a trial.
You are wrong because a Judge can do that during a trial.
So keep digging.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

You keep digging yourself even further. Figures.
What do you not understand about "for clarification purposes"?
So keep digging.

Here is that original false statement again.
You are wrong because a Judge can do that during a trial.
So keep digging.

Ridiculous

bye
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Ridiculous

bye
Yes your current comment is as ridiculous as your previous false statement was.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

And what she was probably saying was: "three that I personally saw". Even though there are indications that Roeur had gotten tired of Dunn (Dunn evidently had a habit of causing peole to get tired of him), she was probably not going out of her way to testify against her boyfriend either.

In short, I bet Dunn was not only a bully by nature and not only armed, but he was also drunk and.... had been "diss'ed"- maybe even where his chick could see it.

That is a bad combination- does not matter whether the person in question is a upper middle class software developer, or an inner city / barrio twenty something year old.

The courts have spoken. He's in prison for life. I actually feel sorry for him. He'll never have Thanksgiving dinner with his family. He'll never celebrate Christmas unwrapping presents. No more romantic weekends with his would be wife. Just locked away with hardened criminals watching his back for reprisal attacks and hoping he doesn't get caught alone. No more vacations. Of course, I feel awful mostly for the kid he killed, his parents and other loved ones. I agree with Angela Corey, Stand Your Ground needs to be repealed...but that's another thread.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

The courts have spoken. He's in prison for life. I actually feel sorry for him.
I dont feel sorry for him at all. Unlike say, the porch shooter, who probably made a single bad decision, Dunn a self professed "gun guy" has a pattern of making bad decisions involving fights or weapons. I have nothing against weapons per se, but alot against people like Dunn.

As for Stand Your Ground, I"ll agree with you about Florida's SYG. Other SYG laws such as Texas kept common law wisdom by clearly stating that one cant provoke the other individual, nor be in violation of any law at the time. This puts the brakes on alot of contrived situations, or "bored bully looking for an excuse" type shootings.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

The courts have spoken. He's in prison for life. I actually feel sorry for him. He'll never have Thanksgiving dinner with his family. He'll never celebrate Christmas unwrapping presents. No more romantic weekends with his would be wife. Just locked away with hardened criminals watching his back for reprisal attacks and hoping he doesn't get caught alone. No more vacations. Of course, I feel awful mostly for the kid he killed, his parents and other loved ones. I agree with Angela Corey, Stand Your Ground needs to be repealed...but that's another thread.

You are more likely to be killed wrongfully by a police officer than a CCW holder. I guess police need to "go away?"
 
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