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Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

... which, of course, is immaterial. Unless, of course, we want to point out how incredibly stupid it would be to make the same mistake your predecessor made.

It's not immaterial to the 3,000 Americans killed that day. Your support of Bush has you a bit calloused.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Two things: 1) the knee-jerk attempts by the left to deflect any incompetence from this administration by pointing out the (supposed) incompetence of its predecessor is beyond moronic, is no real defense at all of Obama, and was a tired strategy 5 years ago. 2) Given your 20/20 hindsight of the matter, what should Bush have done with those warnings? Declare martial law?

And finally, what we have here with Obama is his getting the assessments of ISIS and now lying about it. Try to deal with the topic of the thread rather than derail it and slam Bush. Bush is out of office. He has been for six years. Obama is president and the thread is about Obama. If you cant follow along, start your own Bush-bashing thread and stay out of this one. Thanks

It's not a defense. Obama is guilty as charged in the op. It's pointed out that George Bush is likewise guilty of the same thing to expose your and others hypocrisy! Understand that?
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

And yet no indication they were going to use planes as missiles, the things going on with Isis have happened right out in the open for all to see.

More lies to cover up the FAILINGS of your hero!

Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-warned-of-suicide-hijackings/
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

There are "growing threats" all around the world. I can't get into what was stated but did it say that the Iraqi army was unable to meet the threat? Did it say mass desertion would lead to the taking of Iraq? I wonder if Russia is a "growing threat" according to the intelligence community?

Yes, there are growing threats around the world, but in this case there was a growing threat in a region that Obama was busy withdrawing troops from. This isn't analogous to the Russian situation because we didn't withdraw a large contingent of US troops from Ukraine while Russian troops were amassing on the border.

What this shows is that the President was remarkably myopic in his actions in a region in which he claimed to be clear on. All this while his die hard defenders claimed there was really no need for the President to attend all of those security briefings he missed. Apparently there was very good reason for him to be there because if he was as astonishingly ignorant as he claims on 60 Minutes of the reality on the ground in Iraq then whatever was substituting the face to face meeting wasn't working.

His attempt to pass the buck on 60 minutes just underscores what a disastrous leader he turned out to be.
 
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Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

A weak government has to bend to public opinion. Public opinion in Iraq was for American troops to leave. Maliki himself may of even wanted American troops to stay but if he feels as if he's barely holding onto power the last thing he's going to do is go against his population on such a supercharged issue.


Mornin" ILOR. :2wave: That is true.....and the Shia and Al Sadr and who Sadr answers to. Wanted us out. Still even after BO pulled out.....Maliki returned requesting help in Nov. of last year. Which BO denied and worrying what Maliki would do if given such Aid. Which anything with Maliki doesn't change what he was being told and knew about ISIL back then.


Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country.....

President Obama's proud political boast is that he ended the Iraq war, but on Friday, he will come face-to-face with a man who is still fighting it -- Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. The Iraqi leader visits the White House as Al-Qaeda sows terror in Iraq's Shiite community, with a surge of suicide and car bombings, drawing analogies to the darkest days of sectarian bloodletting during the US occupation. Two years after the last US soldier left Iraq, Americans have largely moved on from a war which killed nearly 4,500 US troops, tens of thousands of civilians and drained the US Treasury. But the carnage in Iraq -- where more than 700 people have died in violence this month alone -- is stirring fears the country may again slide into an abyss exacerbated by the brutal war rending Syria next door. "The security situation is not only bad... it not only could reverse all of the gains of 2008, it could tear the country apart if both Maliki and the United States do not act quickly," said James Jeffrey, until last year, the US ambassador to Iraq, who is now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Maliki, blamed by some Iraq watchers in Washington for marginalizing Sunnis and sinking a well of sectarian anger for extremists to exploit, is blunt about the challenge. "The terrorists found a second chance," he said in a speech in Washington Thursday, warning Al-Qaeda and allied groups were a "virus." Maliki has a wish list of US military hardware, including attack helicopters to go with already ordered fighter jets to help his ill-equipped military battle insurgents. There is a certain irony in his request -- given the failure of Iraqi and US negotiators to agree legal immunity for US troops that would have allowed a residual American force to stay behind in Iraq. Iraq's slide back into violence has revived questions here about the wisdom of the complete US withdrawal, the Maliki government's conduct since and America's future relationship with a nation it invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.....snip~

Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country
 
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Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

And Bush retired - 6 years ago. We got a new CEO. One who either is incompetant, or hires incompetant people, who do not keep him informed, which is incompetant.

Yep, one incompetent CEO after another. Man, that spotlight in post 6 has the wingers panties all knotted up!
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

I think Obama believes that, if we withdraw from all the attacks, invasions, coups, etc. and mind our own business that things will calm down in the world. It is an appealing idea. Sadly, it hasn't worked. Apparently the stick works better than the carrot. I suspect Obama isn't good at coming to grips with that reality.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Yep, one incompetent CEO after another. Man, that spotlight in post 6 has the wingers panties all knotted up!

Again, Bush is gone. Last I heard he was hosting BBQ's down in Texas. Barry is in charge now. Or at least he was hired to be in charge.

Time to move on. Even Barry is now blaming Clapper.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Silly bunny, he allowed Isis to take back all the cities Americans fought, and died for to free the Iraqi people, but he doesn't care.hey were the JV no threat

No, The Iraqi army that we trained for 10 years let those cities fall many without a fight. We did not free the Iraqi people we simply exchanged one genocidal dictator for another. Obama could not do a thing until Maliki was gone....he was the problem.

bush_maliki_handshake.jpg


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/28/what-we-left-behind
 
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Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Again, Bush is gone. Last I heard he was hosting BBQ's down in Texas. Barry is in charge now. Or at least he was hired to be in charge.

Time to move on. Even Barry is now blaming Clapper.

Yeah, Bush blamed the intelligence community too! That's what presidents do with good partisan support. The left is protecting Obama as you guys protected Bush. If people would just put America before the party, oh well.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

I think Obama believes that, if we withdraw from all the attacks, invasions, coups, etc. and mind our own business that things will calm down in the world. It is an appealing idea. Sadly, it hasn't worked. Apparently the stick works better than the carrot. I suspect Obama isn't good at coming to grips with that reality.

What in the hell makes you think that ****?? Obama grabbed hold of that stick Bush stuck into the ME and has stirred the hell out of it!!
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

What in the hell makes you think that ****?? Obama grabbed hold of that stick Bush stuck into the ME and has stirred the hell out of it!!

Nothing, Was something confusing about my post?
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

And George Bush had ample warnings about Al Qaeda before 9/11 that all went ignored.

How George W. Bush was given SEVEN warnings about threat from Bin Laden in months before 9/11

Read more: 9/11 anniversary: Series of 2001 briefings warned of attack by Bin Laden | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


The Deafness Before the Storm
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html

Another lw zombie meme. It just won't die. There was never any actionable intel about Al Qaeda before 9/11. The fact that they were determined to attack inside the US was common knowledge. When, where, and how, was a different matter.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Mornin" ILOR. :2wave: That is true.....and the Shia and Al Sadr and who Sadr answers to. Wanted us out. Still even after BO pulled out.....Maliki returned requesting help in Nov. of last year. Which BO denied and worrying what Maliki would do if given such Aid. Which anything with Maliki doesn't change what he was being told and knew about ISIL back then.


Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country.....

President Obama's proud political boast is that he ended the Iraq war, but on Friday, he will come face-to-face with a man who is still fighting it -- Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. The Iraqi leader visits the White House as Al-Qaeda sows terror in Iraq's Shiite community, with a surge of suicide and car bombings, drawing analogies to the darkest days of sectarian bloodletting during the US occupation. Two years after the last US soldier left Iraq, Americans have largely moved on from a war which killed nearly 4,500 US troops, tens of thousands of civilians and drained the US Treasury. But the carnage in Iraq -- where more than 700 people have died in violence this month alone -- is stirring fears the country may again slide into an abyss exacerbated by the brutal war rending Syria next door. "The security situation is not only bad... it not only could reverse all of the gains of 2008, it could tear the country apart if both Maliki and the United States do not act quickly," said James Jeffrey, until last year, the US ambassador to Iraq, who is now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Maliki, blamed by some Iraq watchers in Washington for marginalizing Sunnis and sinking a well of sectarian anger for extremists to exploit, is blunt about the challenge. "The terrorists found a second chance," he said in a speech in Washington Thursday, warning Al-Qaeda and allied groups were a "virus." Maliki has a wish list of US military hardware, including attack helicopters to go with already ordered fighter jets to help his ill-equipped military battle insurgents. There is a certain irony in his request -- given the failure of Iraqi and US negotiators to agree legal immunity for US troops that would have allowed a residual American force to stay behind in Iraq. Iraq's slide back into violence has revived questions here about the wisdom of the complete US withdrawal, the Maliki government's conduct since and America's future relationship with a nation it invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.....snip~

Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country

Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

So the blame game is now making front page news - right on schedule! Good to know that nothing changes, and it's everyone else's fault when things go wrong. Meanwhile, back at the ranch in DC, we learn that all Maliki needs ifrom us is more equipment and/or money. to fight ISIS. Boringly predictable! Will we take the bait even though we're technically bankrupt?, with our debt exceeding our GDP? Sure, why not? Disregard the fact that the Sunis and Shiites have been fighting this religious war with each other for 1,357 years! We're gonna wade in and fix everything now! :thumbdown:
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Yes, there are growing threats around the world, but in this case there was a growing threat in a region that Obama was busy withdrawing troops from. This isn't analogous to the Russian situation because we didn't withdraw a large contingent of US troops from Ukraine while Russian troops were amassing on the border.

What this shows is that the President was remarkably myopic in his actions in a region in which he claimed to be clear on. All this while his die hard defenders claimed there was really no need for the President to attend all of those security briefings he missed. Apparently there was very good reason for him to be there because if he was as astonishingly ignorant as he claims on 60 Minutes of the reality on the ground in Iraq then whatever was substituting the face to face meeting wasn't working.

His attempt to pass the buck on 60 minutes just underscores what a disastrous leader he turned out to be.

Wait...wait wait....

The withdrawing of troops was based on an agreement signed before Obama even took office. What should he of done? Told the Iraqi government "screw you and your Democratic process or public opinion....we're going to keep troops in Iraq". That would be worse than withdrawing. At that point we're basically an enemy of the people and the government. We're officially an occupying force in a Democratic country.

In the Ukraine...the government and people of Ukraine strongly support European and US involvement.

As for the Security briefings, I posted in a thread the same thing I'll say here. Security briefings don't tell you if a President is involved in foreign policy or not. GW Bush attending almost every meeting after 9/11 and Reagan only attended one or two meetings in his entire 8 years...and that's during the Cold War. The President reads the daily briefings and asks any questions he has.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

It's not a defense. Obama is guilty as charged in the op. It's pointed out that George Bush is likewise guilty of the same thing to expose your and others hypocrisy! Understand that?
No, I don't understand. What hypocrisy? Bush saw the warnings and the claim by mindless leftists is that he should have prevented 9/11. Care to tell me what Bush should have done in light of the intelligence reports? Obama, on the other hand, claims that the reports didn't warn of ISIS threats and that is a lie.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

More lies to cover up the FAILINGS of your hero!

Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon.

Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings - CBS News
Two years before 9/11 Bush wasn't president, Clinton was. So put on your thinking cap and tell me what Bush should have done.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Mornin" ILOR. :2wave: That is true.....and the Shia and Al Sadr and who Sadr answers to. Wanted us out. Still even after BO pulled out.....Maliki returned requesting help in Nov. of last year. Which BO denied and worrying what Maliki would do if given such Aid. Which anything with Maliki doesn't change what he was being told and knew about ISIL back then.


Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country.....

President Obama's proud political boast is that he ended the Iraq war, but on Friday, he will come face-to-face with a man who is still fighting it -- Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. The Iraqi leader visits the White House as Al-Qaeda sows terror in Iraq's Shiite community, with a surge of suicide and car bombings, drawing analogies to the darkest days of sectarian bloodletting during the US occupation. Two years after the last US soldier left Iraq, Americans have largely moved on from a war which killed nearly 4,500 US troops, tens of thousands of civilians and drained the US Treasury. But the carnage in Iraq -- where more than 700 people have died in violence this month alone -- is stirring fears the country may again slide into an abyss exacerbated by the brutal war rending Syria next door. "The security situation is not only bad... it not only could reverse all of the gains of 2008, it could tear the country apart if both Maliki and the United States do not act quickly," said James Jeffrey, until last year, the US ambassador to Iraq, who is now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Maliki, blamed by some Iraq watchers in Washington for marginalizing Sunnis and sinking a well of sectarian anger for extremists to exploit, is blunt about the challenge. "The terrorists found a second chance," he said in a speech in Washington Thursday, warning Al-Qaeda and allied groups were a "virus." Maliki has a wish list of US military hardware, including attack helicopters to go with already ordered fighter jets to help his ill-equipped military battle insurgents. There is a certain irony in his request -- given the failure of Iraqi and US negotiators to agree legal immunity for US troops that would have allowed a residual American force to stay behind in Iraq. Iraq's slide back into violence has revived questions here about the wisdom of the complete US withdrawal, the Maliki government's conduct since and America's future relationship with a nation it invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.....snip~

Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country

Morning MMA!

That is interesting, but I have an issue with hindsight being used to analyze Maliki asking for attack helicopters and fighter jets. His neighbor just used those types of weapons to kill his own population. Based on how Maliki governs and his complete refusal to work with other factions in the country, would you trust him and just send him attack helicopters and planes? We just spent 10 years training and arming the Iraqi army and police force. If they can't hold off groups with that why exactly would helicopters and planes make a difference? I think if we would of given the Iraqi's those weapons we would just have report of ISIS now in control of US attack helicopters and jets. They probably couldn't do anything with them, there's a lot that goes into operating and supporting those weapons, but I just don't see those tipping the balance.

ISIS swept through Iraq because the Iraqi army barely fired back and threw down their arms. We could of shipped Iraq 100 Abrams Tanks and I have the feeling the news would be the same as it is now except that ISIS now has even more advanced US weapon technology at their disposal.

Edit: At the end of the day the technology is only good as the person manning the weapon or the willingness of the force to fight. The Iraqi military wasn't willing to fight for their country
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

No, The Iraqi army that we trained for 10 years let those cities fall many without a fight. We did not free the Iraqi people we simply exchanged one genocidal dictator for another. Obama could not do a thing until Maliki was gone....he was the problem.

bush_maliki_handshake.jpg


What We Left Behind - The New Yorker


So then.....Why did BO's Iraq Ambassador point out otherwise? Why was he saying something needed to be done even before this last year? Why is it reported that BO knew ISIS was ready to go after Cities in Iraq and still did nothing.

Why couldn't BO figure out he could get more intel by assisting Maliki from last year where BO could control the situation? Since Maliki was coming to him. That BO could have dictated terms for Assistance to fight ISIL.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

I think Obama believes that, if we withdraw from all the attacks, invasions, coups, etc. and mind our own business that things will calm down in the world. It is an appealing idea. Sadly, it hasn't worked. Apparently the stick works better than the carrot. I suspect Obama isn't good at coming to grips with that reality.

That cannot be accurate, Obama has been anything but a pacifist President.

Under Obama we have either orchestrated, conducted operations with, or helped in some way plenty to carry out attacks, invasions of other nations, government overthrows and coups, and all sorts of other military and intelligence operations around the globe. From Libya to Egypt to Syria to Iraq we have our hands dirty, with plenty of drone strikes all over the middle east, and even killed a few terrorist leaders including going into Pakistan without permission to kill Bin Laden and recenty Somalia to kill another. At the same time we have awakened the cold war with Russia and are as of today dropping bombs on two nations. One of which makes Obama the 4th President in a row to do so (Iraq.)

What has not worked is Obama's continuation of a very confusing and hypocritical foreign policy. We have done anything but "mind our own business" and for you to suggest Obama has that mindset clearly is a head in the sand response.

I would argue ever since WWII (and in some ways well before even that) we as a nation have never tried to mind our own business to see if world relations calmed down. We have in fact always conducted operations as a military empire doing as we wish as the world's police department. With one hell of a cost, in lives and dollars, to show for it.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Morning MMA!

That is interesting, but I have an issue with hindsight being used to analyze Maliki asking for attack helicopters and fighter jets. His neighbor just used those types of weapons to kill his own population. Based on how Maliki governs and his complete refusal to work with other factions in the country, would you trust him and just send him attack helicopters and planes? We just spent 10 years training and arming the Iraqi army and police force. If they can't hold off groups with that why exactly would helicopters and planes make a difference? I think if we would of given the Iraqi's those weapons we would just have report of ISIS now in control of US attack helicopters and jets. They probably couldn't do anything with them, there's a lot that goes into operating and supporting those weapons, but I just don't see those tipping the balance.

ISIS swept through Iraq because the Iraqi army barely fired back and threw down their arms. We could of shipped Iraq 100 Abrams Tanks and I have the feeling the news would be the same as it is now except that ISIS now has even more advanced US weapon technology at their disposal.

Edit: At the end of the day the technology is only good as the person manning the weapon or the willingness of the force to fight. The Iraqi military wasn't willing to fight for their country

It wouldn't be hindsight with the Iraq Ambassador filling BO in on all the details.....Also BO could have dictated terms to Maliki since this was after the SOFA.....yet BO wanted out and BO had declared Iraq.....Stable and self reliant. Biden stated it was a Success.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

So then.....Why did BO's Iraq Ambassador point out otherwise? Why was he saying something needed to be done even before this last year? Why is it reported that BO knew ISIS was ready to go after Cities in Iraq and still did nothing.

Why couldn't BO figure out he could get more intel by assisting Maliki from last year where BO could control the situation? Since Maliki was coming to him. That BO could have dictated terms for Assistance to fight ISIL.

You don't read. I said Obama could do nothing as long as Maliki and his sectarian regime was calling the shots. You wanted us to support a genocidal dictator with American lives? It took ISIS to take out Maliki and that is a good thing. At least Iraq has a chance now.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Well sure, but the claim is that he put politics ahead of dealing with ISIS so it is no defense in claiming that he couldn't do anything with an election coming up. That is just agreeing.

The other part of this is that if this is true, that he had accurate intelligence for years, then the president just lied on 60 minutes.

That's not really the claim though. The claim is that he should have done something, Congress be damned. While he has too often given Congress the old end around, I can't say that I wish he had done so.
 
Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Two years before 9/11 Bush wasn't president, Clinton was. So put on your thinking cap and tell me what Bush should have done.

He should have listened to his advisors. They all told him that we needed to go after Alqaeda....he refused saying he "did not want to swat at flys". He then insisted that the "real" threat was Saddam Hussein and we need to overthrow him instead. And after letting 911 happen, that is what he did. Because like he said " We are either with HIM or on the side of the terrorists".
 
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Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Wait...wait wait....

The withdrawing of troops was based on an agreement signed before Obama even took office. What should he of done? Told the Iraqi government "screw you and your Democratic process or public opinion....we're going to keep troops in Iraq". That would be worse than withdrawing. At that point we're basically an enemy of the people and the government. We're officially an occupying force in a Democratic country.

Worse than losing Iraq to ISIS control? I beg to differ!

And no, the SOF agreement negotiated by Bush expired under Obama, but Obama was always free to negotiate a new SOF with Iraq. Obama simply didn't try and ignored the warnings of his military advisers in order to meet a campaign promise. It's all politics first and always with Obama.

And none of your defending explains why, when asked by the Iraqis, Obama didn't reinsert US power in the region. He was INVITED IN by the Iraqis and he turned them down. It is this critical failure that gave frickin' IRAN the open door to Iraq. Obama's decisions were all unmitigated disasters for US foreign policy.

In the Ukraine...the government and people of Ukraine strongly support European and US involvement.

So do the Iraqis, long before the disastrous ISIS campaign. When they were still sitting ducks in the desert border with Syria, when air power could have wiped them out, Obama refused. It would have looked bad in the reelection, you know! And the election is what was really important to Obama.

As for the Security briefings, I posted in a thread the same thing I'll say here. Security briefings don't tell you if a President is involved in foreign policy or not. GW Bush attending almost every meeting after 9/11 and Reagan only attended one or two meetings in his entire 8 years...and that's during the Cold War. The President reads the daily briefings and asks any questions he has.


And, like I just said, you can make that argument all you want but the truth is that Obama himself admits to being ignorant of information that was clearly documented in those briefings. You can argue that Presidents don't need to attend those meetings but if the President is as ignorant as Obama is then whatever alternative method of getting briefed he was using was not (is not) working.
 
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