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Thread: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So a US occupation against the wish of the people and government would of resulted in [fill in the blank].
    So you assume that our State Department was just too inept to broker a deal? I tend to agree with you, but then that is my point.


    Since when do agreements expire under a new President? Obama tried to negotiate for an extension or more troops left behind. I guess he can unilaterally cancel the agreement but that would be a mess and lead to the situation of US troops in Iraq against the wishes of the people and government. That's war...
    No, you really need to go back and read the account of what actually happened in Iraq that lead to the end of US involvement.

    In US Exit from Iraq, Failed Efforts and Challenges

    Maliki was more than willing to keep the US troops in Iraq but Obama, as is his established MO, kept undercutting the negotiation process and made it impossible to ever really negotiate a SOFA continuance. Obama broke off the talks when Maliki was still willing to negotiate:

    On Aug. 13, Mr. Obama settled the matter in a conference call in which he ruled out the 10,000 troop option and a smaller 7,000 variant. The talks would proceed but the size of the force the United States might keep was shrunk: the new goal would be a continuous presence of about 3,500 troops, a rotating force of up to 1,500 and half a dozen F-16’s.

    But there was no agreement. Some experts say that given the Iraqis’ concerns about sovereignty, and Iranian pressure, the politicians in Baghdad were simply not prepared to make the hard decisions that were needed to secure parliamentary approval. Others say the Iraqis sensed the Americans’ ambivalence and were being asked to make unpopular political decisions for a modest military benefit.

    Ending the Effort

    On Oct. 21, Mr. Obama held another videoconference with Mr. Maliki — his first such discussion since the talks began in June. The negotiations were over, and all of the American troops would be coming home.


    Maliki actually favored the larger troop presence, it was the continuing down sizing by Obama that was hampering the deal as well as his juvenile attempts at reshuffling the Iraqi government as a prerequisite to a SOFA agreement.


    When were we invited into the US? I'm not defending I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to the situation than "Obama left Iraq and now look at it".

    Please link a reputable news site with an article pertaining to that. MMC linked an article with Maliki asking for US jets and attack helicopters but I'm not familiar with the Iraqi government asking us back into the country or asking for a US bombing campaign before ISIS started gaining territory.
    I'm sorry, what part of Maliki requesting US fighter jets and attack Helicopters come back to Iraq to attack ISIS are you not understanding?

    More to the point, at the time Obama said he pledged US support for Iraq and.... did not a damn thing. He did what he is best at: He dithered.

    They obviously stated ISIS was a growing threat. Did they state that the Iraqi military wouldn't be able to handle the situation? Did they state that mass desertion would lead to a collapse of the Iraqi military? The agreement to leave Iraq was based on the fact we spent a decade training and outfitting the Iraqi military to handle Iraqi issues.
    YES! Obama's military advisers requested a large scale troop involvement in Iraq partly to train the Iraqi military into a competent fighting force. We have known for many years that the Iraqi military was not ready for prime time. Why is it that only you and Obama seem to have been out of the loop?

    So using hindsight as a benefit I'm not sure what you state Obama should of done is even correct.
    It was the best he could have done. What he ended up doing was almost the worst possible thing he could have done. He inadvertently supported ISIS in Syria and left Iraq twisting in the wind.

    Actually, I'm not sure there is a worse alternative than the path Obama took. From the collapse of the SOFA negotiations to the barbarian horse plowing through Iraqi towns every failure has Obama's finger prints on it. His actions in the SOFA deal make BIDEN seem like the smarter of the two.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 10-01-14 at 01:59 PM.
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What in the hell makes you think that ****?? Obama grabbed hold of that stick Bush stuck into the ME and has stirred the hell out of it!!
    I think your reality check just bounced.
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Interesting. But there is a fine line between "had intelligence reports" and "have evidence to take to Congress." In 2012, it would have been hard sell especially with the election coming up.
    Yeah, especially since Obama was running on a platform of having killed Osama, al-Qaeda was on the run and Benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration...you're are damned right it would be a "hard sell"..

    But note, in Obama's defense his followers immediately turn to the political question and Obama's electoral standing as opposed to what's right. And thank you for documenting so succinctly the nature of the problem with Obama's presidency....it's all for image.
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We lost control of Iraq before Obama took office. Maliki refused to make an inclusive Govt. and was killing and locking up Sunni's in reprisal. Giving him more weapons would have made us complicit in genocide. Sending our troops to prop him up would be even worse. As far as helping Iran, Bush installed a Iranian sympathizer as President of Iraq. What could be more helpful than that?
    Bush chose POORLY in allowing Maliki to lead. No surprise there.


    Oh that's a new one.

    Tell me, if things were so unstable and left over from Bush why did Obama decide to leave?
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We lost control of Iraq before Obama took office. Maliki refused to make an inclusive Govt. and was killing and locking up Sunni's in reprisal. Giving him more weapons would have made us complicit in genocide. Sending our troops to prop him up would be even worse. As far as helping Iran, Bush installed a Iranian sympathizer as President of Iraq. What could be more helpful than that?
    Bush chose POORLY in allowing Maliki to lead. No surprise there.
    That an absolute lie. But don't take my word for it. Ask Joe Biden who in 2010 (that would be two years after Bush left office) proclaimed that Iraq would be "One of Obama's great achievements." Obama lost control of Iraq and its collapse came six years into Obamas term. To continue to claim its all Bushs fault at this point destroys any credibility you might have.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Kinda hard to do the work you've been elected to do when you spend more hours on the golf course than hours you spend in daily intelligence briefings.
    The American people really should be outraged by what comes down to dereliction of duty by this president. So, Obama decided not to do anything about ISIS because he needed to promote that OBL is dead and GM is alive. He had actionable intelligence before the election, but kept a lid on on it. Nice job, Hussein.

    In addition to that, the PDB is one of the most important aspects of his job, and he mostly ignores it. When he does glance at it, no explanation needed, the community organizer/president is the first one that has no questions with the PDB. He doesn't read it, because he won't do anything about what's in it. Boy, did we get screwed by the fools that elected this guy. We are paying for it now, and will continue to pay for it a long way down the road.
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Oh that's a new one.

    Tell me, if things were so unstable and left over from Bush why did Obama decide to leave?
    Bush "decided to leave" in 2008 when he signed an agreement to "leave". Obama's choice was to re-invade Iraq against Maliki's rule and he decided he STILL thought invading Iraq was a bad idea. Imagine that, a President the actually does what he campaigned to do. The nerve of him.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Are you saying Maliki wasn't elected? So how did he get re-elected in 2010 and just how did Bush Junior help him with that?

    Uhm, you know al Sistani and al Sadr are the real control of the Shia in Iraq......Correct?

    Also, if we you are using the excuse about helping with Genocide. How does this Play out for BO with the Syrian MB backed Sunni Rebels who used Chems on people and Slaughtered Christians.

    While Makiki was elected, there was no way he would gave been able to take power without American consent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    The American people really should be outraged by what comes down to dereliction of duty by this president. So, Obama decided not to do anything about ISIS because he needed to promote that OBL is dead and GM is alive. He had actionable intelligence before the election, but kept a lid on on it. Nice job, Hussein.

    In addition to that, the PDB is one of the most important aspects of his job, and he mostly ignores it. When he does glance at it, no explanation needed, the community organizer/president is the first one that has no questions with the PDB. He doesn't read it, because he won't do anything about what's in it. Boy, did we get screwed by the fools that elected this guy. We are paying for it now, and will continue to pay for it a long way down the road.
    In 2012 ISIS was exclusively in Syria. Do you think we should have invaded Syria then? McCain wanted to arm the rebels which ISIS was a part of but you think we should have invaded Syria to aid Assad? How are we paying for it? By not losing troops in a civil war in Iraq? I'll take those "losses" any day.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    While Makiki was elected, there was no way he would gave been able to take power without American consent.
    And who would have been giving him consent in 2010, again?

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