Page 7 of 15 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 143

Thread: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    November of last year was after the election. I could MAYBE see a political motivation of not doing it around the Presidential election but that's a very cynical view.

    He definitely would of been able to dictate terms but enforcing the terms is an issue. If we say "cannot be used against population" that requires us to react to a use against the population then it turns into "well they were terrorists, that's why you gave them to me".

    I'm just not sure it would of made a difference. Even with the benefit of hindsight I'm not sure giving the Maliki government the requested hardware would be a good idea.

    Do you think sending helicopters and jets would of made the difference?

    Depends.....BO could have made sure he would have Intel set up like he would have thru a SOFA. Explaining to Maliki whether he would still be around or not. That the Intel Had to come with any Hardware. That we just can't bomb any populations. We will need to identify.

  2. #62
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,213

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Worse than losing Iraq to ISIS control? I beg to differ!
    So a US occupation against the wish of the people and government would of resulted in [fill in the blank].

    And no, the SOF agreement negotiated by Bush expired under Obama, but Obama was always free to negotiate a new SOF with Iraq. Obama simply didn't try and ignored the warnings of his military advisers in order to meet a campaign promise. It's all politics first and always with Obama.
    Since when do agreements expire under a new President? Obama tried to negotiate for an extension or more troops left behind. I guess he can unilaterally cancel the agreement but that would be a mess and lead to the situation of US troops in Iraq against the wishes of the people and government. That's war...

    And none of your defending explains why, when asked by the Iraqis, Obama didn't reinsert US power in the region. He was INVITED IN by the Iraqis and he turned them down. It is this critical failure that gave frickin' IRAN the open door to Iraq. Obama's decisions were all unmitigated disasters for US foreign policy.
    When were we invited into the US? I'm not defending I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to the situation than "Obama left Iraq and now look at it".

    So do the Iraqis, long before the disastrous ISIS campaign. When they were still sitting ducks in the desert border with Syria, when air power could have wiped them out, Obama refused. It would have looked bad in the reelection, you know! And the election is what was really important to Obama.
    Please link a reputable news site with an article pertaining to that. MMC linked an article with Maliki asking for US jets and attack helicopters but I'm not familiar with the Iraqi government asking us back into the country or asking for a US bombing campaign before ISIS started gaining territory.

    And, like I just said, you can make that argument all you want but the truth is that Obama himself admits to being ignorant of information that was clearly documented in those briefings. You can argue that Presidents don't need to attend those meetings but if the President is as ignorant as Obama is then whatever alternative method of getting briefed he was using was not (is not) working.
    They obviously stated ISIS was a growing threat. Did they state that the Iraqi military wouldn't be able to handle the situation? Did they state that mass desertion would lead to a collapse of the Iraqi military? The agreement to leave Iraq was based on the fact we spent a decade training and outfitting the Iraqi military to handle Iraqi issues.

    So using hindsight as a benefit I'm not sure what you state Obama should of done is even correct.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #63
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,213

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Depends.....BO could have made sure he would have Intel set up like he would have thru a SOFA. Explaining to Maliki whether he would still be around or not. That the Intel Had to come with any Hardware. That we just can't bomb any populations. We will need to identify.
    True, there are things we could of done. I'm just not entirely sure it would of made a difference. Does it matter how much military hardware you give to guys that throw down their weapons without firing a shot? Good militaries are tenacious. The Iraqi military has proven to have to heart to fight at all. It's an embarrassment actually.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  4. #64
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,400

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    No one said we had to help Maliki stay in power.....it was stated that BO could dictate terms since he was being invited back in. Yet you are saying BO couldn't do that. Which is not true.
    We have tried to get Maliki make an inclusive Govt. since he took office with no success. Maliki needed to step down and refused. Obama could not make him but ISIS did.

  5. #65
    Sage


    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,952
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election, says administration insider | Daily Mail Online

    A national security staffer in the Obama administration said the president has been seeing 'highly accurate predictions' about the rise of the ISIS terror army since 'before the 2012 election'
    Obama insisted in his campaign speeches that year that America was safe and al-Qaeda was 'on the run'
    The president said during Sunday's '60 Minutes' program that his Director of National Intelligence had conceded he underestimated ISIS
    But the administration aide insisted that Obama's advisers gave him actionable information that sat and gathered dust for more than a year
    'He knew what was at stake,' the aide said of the president, and 'he knew where all the moving pieces were'
    Obama takes daily intelligence briefings in writing, he explained, because no one will be able to testify about warning the president in person about threats that the White House doesn't act on


    Hmmm, this is interesting. This guy isn't even going through the motions.

    Read more: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election, says administration insider | Daily Mail Online
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Kinda hard to do the work you've been elected to do when you spend more hours on the golf course than hours you spend in daily intelligence briefings.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  6. #66
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,400

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I wonder if you actually adequately parsed what you are saying here. Are you saying that we allowed ISIS to run roughshod over half of Iraq because Maliki was a bad guy? First off, worse then ISIS? And second, worse than Saddam Hussein?

    Surely you aren't serious...
    Don't call me Surely. LOL The Iraqi army allowed ISIS to run "roughshod" over Iraq. They refused to fight for their Govt. but we should have? You are for making the same mistakes over and over with the blood of our soldiers. Obama thinks better of them. ISIS must be destroyed by local forces or we are just wasting our time and blood again. Now that Maliki is gone Iraq at least has a chance.

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    True, there are things we could of done. I'm just not entirely sure it would of made a difference. Does it matter how much military hardware you give to guys that throw down their weapons without firing a shot? Good militaries are tenacious. The Iraqi military has proven to have to heart to fight at all. It's an embarrassment actually.

    Truthfully ILOR.....as soon as ISIS over ran the Iraqi Military base that held US Stinger missiles. We could have jumped on with the Air Strikes then. Which means Half of what ISIS stole and took into Syria. Would have never got there. So many think BO was looking to play off what they could do to Assad. Which Assad was playing off of them as to what they would do to the Syrian Rebels too.

    You are Right about the Iraqis folding.....but then allowing ISIS to take 4 more Military bases in Iraq was the outcome of doing nothing. Which also led to ISIS getting our tanks and then over-running 4 of Assad's Military bases. Now they have both American and Russian Tech. The Best of the Best. Others can't even get in range.

    Of course this would have taken Intel people out there tracking things down.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We have tried to get Maliki make an inclusive Govt. since he took office with no success. Maliki needed to step down and refused. Obama could not make him but ISIS did.
    Yes we know this.....but we didn't have to deal with the part on their Government. That was for the Iraqis themselves to deal with. BO still had the Right to go in with terms dictated once US Military Equipment was taken and used. We had the Right to take out any Terrorists with the War on Terror. As ISIL was still part of AQ Prime.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Fletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mentor Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    15,286

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    He should have listened to his advisors. They all told him that we needed to go after Alqaeda....he refused saying he "did not want to swat at flys". He then insisted that the "real" threat was Saddam Hussein and we need to overthrow him instead. And after letting 911 happen, that is what he did. Because like he said " We are either with HIM or on the side of the terrorists".
    OK, great. Bush gets intel in August of 01 saying an AQ attack was imminent and you say he should have gone after AQ. You think Bush could have mobilized the country, the military and the congress to go after AQ to the degree that 9/11 wouldn't have happened? You cant be serious. Accusing Bush of "letting 9/11 happen" as you just did is absurd. There is nothing, NOTHING Bush could have done to stop 9/11. Saying otherwise is moronic.

  10. #70
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,400

    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    OK, great. Bush gets intel in August of 01 saying an AQ attack was imminent and you say he should have gone after AQ. You think Bush could have mobilized the country, the military and the congress to go after AQ to the degree that 9/11 wouldn't have happened? You cant be serious. Accusing Bush of "letting 9/11 happen" as you just did is absurd. There is nothing, NOTHING Bush could have done to stop 9/11. Saying otherwise is moronic.
    Maybe that is correct but there were things Bush could have done that might have given us a chance to thwart it. That is the point. Bush consistently downplayed Alqaeda to the point where he even told advisors he did not want to hear Bin Laden's name mentioned in briefings. You can't honestly think that he did his best protecting the country. Isn't that the Presidents job? If Obama told advisors that he didn't want to hear the name ISIS would you support him as much as you do Bush? The fact tis that Bush set a dangerous precedent by receiving overwhelming support for all his policies after 911 and he used it to invade Iraq. Some other President might see that and think he could do the same.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-01-14 at 01:34 PM.

Page 7 of 15 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •