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Thread: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, MMC.

    So the blame game is now making front page news - right on schedule! Good to know that nothing changes, and it's everyone else's fault when things go wrong. Meanwhile, back at the ranch in DC, we learn that all Maliki needs ifrom us is more equipment and/or money. to fight ISIS. Boringly predictable! Will we take the bait even though we're technically bankrupt?, with our debt exceeding our GDP? Sure, why not? Disregard the fact that the Sunis and Shiites have been fighting this religious war with each other for 1,357 years! We're gonna wade in and fix everything now! :

    Well this time it has backfired on BO.....Lady P. As now what BO did.....was just affect all 16 Intel Agencies we have. Which I doubt he can clean up so easily.



    The Obama administration national security staffer declined to share any specific information contained inside the PDBs, citing the need to continue to maintain security clearance protocols. The government aide also maintained that he is indeed “familiar” with the Middle East intelligence material that is sent to President Obama. The individual also revealed that the “finger-pointing” at James Clapper is not “sitting well” at the White House. “It’s starting to affect morale around here,” the intelligence staffer added. “Any time you’re hired by a boss to advise him about what to do in a high-stakes area, and he ignores you for a long time, it’s going to gnaw at you.”.....snip~

    Obama Missed More Than Half Of Intelligence Briefings, Government Accountability Report Says

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's not really the claim though. The claim is that he should have done something, Congress be damned. While he has too often given Congress the old end around, I can't say that I wish he had done so.
    No, that isn't the claim. The claim is that he did nothing because doing something would look bad politically. The Congress, at least the Republicans, would have been more than happy to authorize action in Iraq. In fact the Republicans were requesting that Obama listen to his military advisers and heed the intel coming out of Syria.

    I suppose the Democrats might have blocked it, but at the time they were still a rubber stamp for Obama.

    But perceived political difficulties are a piss poor excuse for not even trying.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You don't read. I said Obama could do nothing as long as Maliki and his sectarian regime was calling the shots. You wanted us to support a genocidal dictator with American lives? It took ISIS to take out Maliki and that is a good thing. At least Iraq has a chance now.
    Yeah I read.....evidently you don't. And I just pointed out how you missed the mark.....what are you trying to Say BO could not dictate terms of his Assistance if he had choose to help? That's in Nov of this last year. After Maliki came to Washington.

    Whats your excuse that BO could not dictate terms of Assistance to Maliki? Does BO have the power or not? Oops, there goes your false equation to supporting a Dictator with American lives.

    Oh btw......do we support King Abdullah/Dictator of the Saudi? You didn't think that Crown was Real.....did you?
    Last edited by MMC; 10-01-14 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Worse than losing Iraq to ISIS control? I beg to differ!

    And no, the SOF agreement negotiated by Bush expired under Obama, but Obama was always free to negotiate a new SOF with Iraq. Obama simply didn't try and ignored the warnings of his military advisers in order to meet a campaign promise. It's all politics first and always with Obama.

    And none of your defending explains why, when asked by the Iraqis, Obama didn't reinsert US power in the region. He was INVITED IN by the Iraqis and he turned them down. It is this critical failure that gave frickin' IRAN the open door to Iraq. Obama's decisions were all unmitigated disasters for US foreign policy.



    So do the Iraqis, long before the disastrous ISIS campaign. When they were still sitting ducks in the desert border with Syria, when air power could have wiped them out, Obama refused. It would have looked bad in the reelection, you know! And the election is what was really important to Obama.




    And, like I just said, you can make that argument all you want but the truth is that Obama himself admits to being ignorant of information that was clearly documented in those briefings. You can argue that Presidents don't need to attend those meetings but if the President is as ignorant as Obama is then whatever alternative method of getting briefed he was using was not (is not) working.
    We lost control of Iraq before Obama took office. Maliki refused to make an inclusive Govt. and was killing and locking up Sunni's in reprisal. Giving him more weapons would have made us complicit in genocide. Sending our troops to prop him up would be even worse. As far as helping Iran, Bush installed a Iranian sympathizer as President of Iraq. What could be more helpful than that?
    Bush chose POORLY in allowing Maliki to lead. No surprise there.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, MMC.

    So the blame game is now making front page news - right on schedule! Good to know that nothing changes, and it's everyone else's fault when things go wrong. Meanwhile, back at the ranch in DC, we learn that all Maliki needs ifrom us is more equipment and/or money. to fight ISIS. Boringly predictable! Will we take the bait even though we're technically bankrupt?, with our debt exceeding our GDP? Sure, why not? Disregard the fact that the Sunis and Shiites have been fighting this religious war with each other for 1,357 years! We're gonna wade in and fix everything now! :
    Yep - because Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and many other "good Muslim" nations simply "lack resources" to fight the (not Islamic) terrorists. Of course, that requires believing that these governments will "do the right thing" if only given such resources which is the biggest Obama (and Bush) foreign policy fault.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah I read.....evidently you don't. And I just pointed out how you missed the mark.....what are you trying to Say BO could not dictate terms of his Assistance if he had choose to help? That's in Nov of this last year. After Maliki came to Washington.

    Whats your excuse that BO could not dictate terms of Assistance to Maliki? Does BO have the power or not? Oops, there goes your false equation to supporting a Dictator with American lives.

    Oh btw......do we support King Abdullah/Dictator of the Saudi? You didn't think that Crown was Real.....did you?
    No Obama did not have the power to dictate terms to Maliki or the inclination. Maliki was the problem with Iraq and Obama knew it. We could do nothing to help him stay in power..period. Did Obama expect that the Iraqi army would turn and run? No. But when it did Obama still insisted that there needed to be a new Govt. as a condition for our help. Otherwise he would have been as stupid as Bush was when he signed that agreement to withdraw with Maliki. Look at that grin.

    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-01-14 at 12:30 PM.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We lost control of Iraq before Obama took office. Maliki refused to make an inclusive Govt. and was killing and locking up Sunni's in reprisal. Giving him more weapons would have made us complicit in genocide. Sending our troops to prop him up would be even worse. As far as helping Iran, Bush installed a Iranian sympathizer as President of Iraq. What could be more helpful than that?
    Are you saying Maliki wasn't elected? So how did he get re-elected in 2010 and just how did Bush Junior help him with that?

    Uhm, you know al Sistani and al Sadr are the real control of the Shia in Iraq......Correct?

    Also, if we you are using the excuse about helping with Genocide. How does this Play out for BO with the Syrian MB backed Sunni Rebels who used Chems on people and Slaughtered Christians.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    It wouldn't be hindsight with the Iraq Ambassador filling BO in on all the details.....Also BO could have dictated terms to Maliki since this was after the SOFA.....yet BO wanted out and BO had declared Iraq.....Stable and self reliant. Biden stated it was a Success.
    November of last year was after the election. I could MAYBE see a political motivation of not doing it around the Presidential election but that's a very cynical view.

    He definitely would of been able to dictate terms but enforcing the terms is an issue. If we say "cannot be used against population" that requires us to react to a use against the population then it turns into "well they were terrorists, that's why you gave them to me".

    I'm just not sure it would of made a difference. Even with the benefit of hindsight I'm not sure giving the Maliki government the requested hardware would be a good idea.

    Do you think sending helicopters and jets would of made the difference?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    No Obama did not have the power to dictate terms to Maliki or the inclination. Maliki was the problem with Iraq and Obama knew it. We could do nothing to help him stay in power..period.
    No one said we had to help Maliki stay in power.....it was stated that BO could dictate terms since he was being invited back in. Yet you are saying BO couldn't do that. Which is not true.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We lost control of Iraq before Obama took office. Maliki refused to make an inclusive Govt. and was killing and locking up Sunni's in reprisal. Giving him more weapons would have made us complicit in genocide. Sending our troops to prop him up would be even worse. As far as helping Iran, Bush installed a Iranian sympathizer as President of Iraq. What could be more helpful than that?
    Bush chose POORLY in allowing Maliki to lead. No surprise there.
    I wonder if you actually adequately parsed what you are saying here. Are you saying that we allowed ISIS to run roughshod over half of Iraq because Maliki was a bad guy? First off, worse then ISIS? And second, worse than Saddam Hussein?

    Surely you aren't serious...
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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