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Thread: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not a defense. Obama is guilty as charged in the op. It's pointed out that George Bush is likewise guilty of the same thing to expose your and others hypocrisy! Understand that?
    No, I don't understand. What hypocrisy? Bush saw the warnings and the claim by mindless leftists is that he should have prevented 9/11. Care to tell me what Bush should have done in light of the intelligence reports? Obama, on the other hand, claims that the reports didn't warn of ISIS threats and that is a lie.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    More lies to cover up the FAILINGS of your hero!

    Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon.

    Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings - CBS News
    Two years before 9/11 Bush wasn't president, Clinton was. So put on your thinking cap and tell me what Bush should have done.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin" ILOR. That is true.....and the Shia and Al Sadr and who Sadr answers to. Wanted us out. Still even after BO pulled out.....Maliki returned requesting help in Nov. of last year. Which BO denied and worrying what Maliki would do if given such Aid. Which anything with Maliki doesn't change what he was being told and knew about ISIL back then.


    Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country.....

    President Obama's proud political boast is that he ended the Iraq war, but on Friday, he will come face-to-face with a man who is still fighting it -- Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. The Iraqi leader visits the White House as Al-Qaeda sows terror in Iraq's Shiite community, with a surge of suicide and car bombings, drawing analogies to the darkest days of sectarian bloodletting during the US occupation. Two years after the last US soldier left Iraq, Americans have largely moved on from a war which killed nearly 4,500 US troops, tens of thousands of civilians and drained the US Treasury. But the carnage in Iraq -- where more than 700 people have died in violence this month alone -- is stirring fears the country may again slide into an abyss exacerbated by the brutal war rending Syria next door. "The security situation is not only bad... it not only could reverse all of the gains of 2008, it could tear the country apart if both Maliki and the United States do not act quickly," said James Jeffrey, until last year, the US ambassador to Iraq, who is now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

    Maliki, blamed by some Iraq watchers in Washington for marginalizing Sunnis and sinking a well of sectarian anger for extremists to exploit, is blunt about the challenge. "The terrorists found a second chance," he said in a speech in Washington Thursday, warning Al-Qaeda and allied groups were a "virus." Maliki has a wish list of US military hardware, including attack helicopters to go with already ordered fighter jets to help his ill-equipped military battle insurgents. There is a certain irony in his request -- given the failure of Iraqi and US negotiators to agree legal immunity for US troops that would have allowed a residual American force to stay behind in Iraq. Iraq's slide back into violence has revived questions here about the wisdom of the complete US withdrawal, the Maliki government's conduct since and America's future relationship with a nation it invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.....snip~

    Obama Meets Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki As Terror Rages Across Country
    Morning MMA!

    That is interesting, but I have an issue with hindsight being used to analyze Maliki asking for attack helicopters and fighter jets. His neighbor just used those types of weapons to kill his own population. Based on how Maliki governs and his complete refusal to work with other factions in the country, would you trust him and just send him attack helicopters and planes? We just spent 10 years training and arming the Iraqi army and police force. If they can't hold off groups with that why exactly would helicopters and planes make a difference? I think if we would of given the Iraqi's those weapons we would just have report of ISIS now in control of US attack helicopters and jets. They probably couldn't do anything with them, there's a lot that goes into operating and supporting those weapons, but I just don't see those tipping the balance.

    ISIS swept through Iraq because the Iraqi army barely fired back and threw down their arms. We could of shipped Iraq 100 Abrams Tanks and I have the feeling the news would be the same as it is now except that ISIS now has even more advanced US weapon technology at their disposal.

    Edit: At the end of the day the technology is only good as the person manning the weapon or the willingness of the force to fight. The Iraqi military wasn't willing to fight for their country
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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    No, The Iraqi army that we trained for 10 years let those cities fall many without a fight. We did not free the Iraqi people we simply exchanged one genocidal dictator for another. Obama could not do a thing until Maliki was gone....he was the problem.



    What We Left Behind - The New Yorker

    So then.....Why did BO's Iraq Ambassador point out otherwise? Why was he saying something needed to be done even before this last year? Why is it reported that BO knew ISIS was ready to go after Cities in Iraq and still did nothing.

    Why couldn't BO figure out he could get more intel by assisting Maliki from last year where BO could control the situation? Since Maliki was coming to him. That BO could have dictated terms for Assistance to fight ISIL.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I think Obama believes that, if we withdraw from all the attacks, invasions, coups, etc. and mind our own business that things will calm down in the world. It is an appealing idea. Sadly, it hasn't worked. Apparently the stick works better than the carrot. I suspect Obama isn't good at coming to grips with that reality.
    That cannot be accurate, Obama has been anything but a pacifist President.

    Under Obama we have either orchestrated, conducted operations with, or helped in some way plenty to carry out attacks, invasions of other nations, government overthrows and coups, and all sorts of other military and intelligence operations around the globe. From Libya to Egypt to Syria to Iraq we have our hands dirty, with plenty of drone strikes all over the middle east, and even killed a few terrorist leaders including going into Pakistan without permission to kill Bin Laden and recenty Somalia to kill another. At the same time we have awakened the cold war with Russia and are as of today dropping bombs on two nations. One of which makes Obama the 4th President in a row to do so (Iraq.)

    What has not worked is Obama's continuation of a very confusing and hypocritical foreign policy. We have done anything but "mind our own business" and for you to suggest Obama has that mindset clearly is a head in the sand response.

    I would argue ever since WWII (and in some ways well before even that) we as a nation have never tried to mind our own business to see if world relations calmed down. We have in fact always conducted operations as a military empire doing as we wish as the world's police department. With one hell of a cost, in lives and dollars, to show for it.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Morning MMA!

    That is interesting, but I have an issue with hindsight being used to analyze Maliki asking for attack helicopters and fighter jets. His neighbor just used those types of weapons to kill his own population. Based on how Maliki governs and his complete refusal to work with other factions in the country, would you trust him and just send him attack helicopters and planes? We just spent 10 years training and arming the Iraqi army and police force. If they can't hold off groups with that why exactly would helicopters and planes make a difference? I think if we would of given the Iraqi's those weapons we would just have report of ISIS now in control of US attack helicopters and jets. They probably couldn't do anything with them, there's a lot that goes into operating and supporting those weapons, but I just don't see those tipping the balance.

    ISIS swept through Iraq because the Iraqi army barely fired back and threw down their arms. We could of shipped Iraq 100 Abrams Tanks and I have the feeling the news would be the same as it is now except that ISIS now has even more advanced US weapon technology at their disposal.

    Edit: At the end of the day the technology is only good as the person manning the weapon or the willingness of the force to fight. The Iraqi military wasn't willing to fight for their country
    It wouldn't be hindsight with the Iraq Ambassador filling BO in on all the details.....Also BO could have dictated terms to Maliki since this was after the SOFA.....yet BO wanted out and BO had declared Iraq.....Stable and self reliant. Biden stated it was a Success.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    So then.....Why did BO's Iraq Ambassador point out otherwise? Why was he saying something needed to be done even before this last year? Why is it reported that BO knew ISIS was ready to go after Cities in Iraq and still did nothing.

    Why couldn't BO figure out he could get more intel by assisting Maliki from last year where BO could control the situation? Since Maliki was coming to him. That BO could have dictated terms for Assistance to fight ISIL.
    You don't read. I said Obama could do nothing as long as Maliki and his sectarian regime was calling the shots. You wanted us to support a genocidal dictator with American lives? It took ISIS to take out Maliki and that is a good thing. At least Iraq has a chance now.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well sure, but the claim is that he put politics ahead of dealing with ISIS so it is no defense in claiming that he couldn't do anything with an election coming up. That is just agreeing.

    The other part of this is that if this is true, that he had accurate intelligence for years, then the president just lied on 60 minutes.
    That's not really the claim though. The claim is that he should have done something, Congress be damned. While he has too often given Congress the old end around, I can't say that I wish he had done so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Two years before 9/11 Bush wasn't president, Clinton was. So put on your thinking cap and tell me what Bush should have done.
    He should have listened to his advisors. They all told him that we needed to go after Alqaeda....he refused saying he "did not want to swat at flys". He then insisted that the "real" threat was Saddam Hussein and we need to overthrow him instead. And after letting 911 happen, that is what he did. Because like he said " We are either with HIM or on the side of the terrorists".
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-01-14 at 12:07 PM.

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    Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Wait...wait wait....

    The withdrawing of troops was based on an agreement signed before Obama even took office. What should he of done? Told the Iraqi government "screw you and your Democratic process or public opinion....we're going to keep troops in Iraq". That would be worse than withdrawing. At that point we're basically an enemy of the people and the government. We're officially an occupying force in a Democratic country.
    Worse than losing Iraq to ISIS control? I beg to differ!

    And no, the SOF agreement negotiated by Bush expired under Obama, but Obama was always free to negotiate a new SOF with Iraq. Obama simply didn't try and ignored the warnings of his military advisers in order to meet a campaign promise. It's all politics first and always with Obama.

    And none of your defending explains why, when asked by the Iraqis, Obama didn't reinsert US power in the region. He was INVITED IN by the Iraqis and he turned them down. It is this critical failure that gave frickin' IRAN the open door to Iraq. Obama's decisions were all unmitigated disasters for US foreign policy.

    In the Ukraine...the government and people of Ukraine strongly support European and US involvement.
    So do the Iraqis, long before the disastrous ISIS campaign. When they were still sitting ducks in the desert border with Syria, when air power could have wiped them out, Obama refused. It would have looked bad in the reelection, you know! And the election is what was really important to Obama.

    As for the Security briefings, I posted in a thread the same thing I'll say here. Security briefings don't tell you if a President is involved in foreign policy or not. GW Bush attending almost every meeting after 9/11 and Reagan only attended one or two meetings in his entire 8 years...and that's during the Cold War. The President reads the daily briefings and asks any questions he has.

    And, like I just said, you can make that argument all you want but the truth is that Obama himself admits to being ignorant of information that was clearly documented in those briefings. You can argue that Presidents don't need to attend those meetings but if the President is as ignorant as Obama is then whatever alternative method of getting briefed he was using was not (is not) working.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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