Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Read m

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

MMC said:

Again Maliki was re-elected in 2010......and BO had an Ambassador to Iraq there at the time. Bush had nothing to do with Maliki from 2009 and up until BO denied Maliki help in Nov of last year.

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Saddam got "re-elected" every time he ran also, that's how "democracy" works in Iraq. Maliki is an Iranian terrorist and I can't believe you think we should have supported him without question or conditions. Do you have even a shred of respect for the lives of our troops? I suppose you would want us to go along with Maliki's death squads as they rounded up Sunni's too. Our soldiers were being attacked by BOTH sides of this civil war and acted as targets for the jihadists too. It is unacceptable to place our soldiers into such a situation again.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

iguanaman said:

Saddam got "re-elected" every time he ran also, that's how "democracy" works in Iraq. Maliki is an Iranian terrorist and I can't believe you think we should have supported him without question or conditions. Do you have even a shred of respect for the lives of our troops? I suppose you would want us to go along with Maliki's death squads as they rounded up Sunni's too. Our soldiers were being attacked by BOTH sides of this civil war and acted as targets for the jihadists too. It is unacceptable to place our soldiers into such a situation again.

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Where have I said we should have supported Maliki at all.....let alone, talking ridiculously about without question or conditions. Or that we should be helping him with his death squads? I doubt you can ever say I was saying such a thing even from what you are responding to. Face the facts BO had to deal with him and so did BO's Ambassador. There is no getting around that Fact. Has nothing to do with Bush.

Do I have even a shred of respect for the lives of our troops......now that's real funny. You ever shed any blood for this country? Ever put your ass on the line for your buddies and your unit, your country? When you get to that part about leaving pieces of yourself in some foreign land and most of your buddies. Then get back to me.

Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing about it. Its already been stated that it is not just our problem and nor should we just need to be the one to deal with the issue. That doesn't mean we just rely on others. We are part of the solution.....like it or not.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

MMC said:

Where have I said we should have supported Maliki at all.....let alone, talking ridiculously about without question or conditions. Or that we should be helping him with his death squads? I doubt you can ever say I was saying such a thing even from what you are responding to. Face the facts BO had to deal with him and so did BO's Ambassador. There is no getting around that Fact. Has nothing to do with Bush.

Do I have even a shred of respect for the lives of our troops......now that's real funny. You ever shed any blood for this country? Ever put your ass on the line for your buddies and your unit, your country? When you get to that part about leaving pieces of yourself in some foreign land and most of your buddies. Then get back to me.

Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing about it. Its already been stated that it is not just our problem and nor should we just need to be the one to deal with the issue. That doesn't mean we just rely on others. We are part of the solution.....like it or not.

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Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

Very well said! :thumbs:

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j-mac said:

I just love how libs threw a fit when Bush was in but now its all good with their guy.

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Leftist policy is nothing but Double standards

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

j-mac said:

LBJ = "...I'm not going to send our boys 9 or 10 thousand miles around the world to do the job that young Asian boys should be doing for themselves..."

Sound familiar?

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We also marveled after the fact that so little was done to prevent the Holocaust and Bill Clinton's greatest regret is Rwanda. Bill Clinton Regrets Rwanda Now (Not So Much In 1994) - ABC News

But he had the excuse that Rwanda was not threatening the United States. Genocide is happening in the ME, in large part created by the United States and its more minor coalition powers. Every nation first involved should be back there again, as well as others who were slow to help out earlier, with only the military involved. Barrack Obama should somehow be removed, or remove himself, from the decision making processes. No country feels confident of success with BHO making life and death decisions.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

j-mac said:

I just love how libs threw a fit when Bush was in but now its all good with their guy.

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Their attempts to blame others is also indicative of their leaders, and in fact all leftists. They always have great plans, everything should go well but someone else screwed up. It was the CIA, Malaki, Military Advisers, Iraqi troops, a Video, or any number of things that caused things to not run as smoothly as they anticipated.

The lack of character displayed by the leftists on these boards is reflected by the US President, who shares the same habits.

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SENSIBLE PATRIO said:

Leftist policy is nothing but Double standards

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I'd welcome any standards, if we knew what they were.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

SENSIBLE PATRIO said:

Oh so you are saying Clinton knew and did nothing got it, to many blow jobs to worry about the country! By the way my hero's are Jesus Christ and the American Soldier!

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Clinton was President during the first attempt on the WTC but few have the hatred similar to the leftists who blame him for the consequent terrorism. It's always directed at George Bush.

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Montecresto said:

The Islamic State had no quarters until we conducted regime change. Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad gave no room for these bastards. It's not a partisan issue. Years of US interference in the ME has been beneficial to militant Islamic groups.

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That's not the issue now is it? The thread is about Obama's incompetence in dealing with it.

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Μολὼν λαβέ;1063823935 said:

That's not the issue now is it? The thread is about Obama's incompetence in dealing with it.

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Wether incompetence or by design, US policy in the ME has been driven by oil interests and has been nothing nice for the inhabitants thereof. Obama is doing no different then many before him. You seem unaware that the US has supported militant Islamic groups in the ME for decades now.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Montecresto said:

Wether incompetence or by design, US policy in the ME has been driven by oil interests and has been nothing nice for the inhabitants thereof. Obama is doing no different then many before him. You seem unaware that the US has supported militant Islamic groups in the ME for decades now.

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Then what makes them so bitter towards Americans?

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Montecresto said:

Wether incompetence or by design, US policy in the ME has been driven by oil interests and has been nothing nice for the inhabitants thereof. Obama is doing no different then many before him. You seem unaware that the US has supported militant Islamic groups in the ME for decades now.

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Wait a dog gone minute here Monte....Your whole bent is to blame the US for its involvement in places you think we shouldn't be, mostly under Republican Presidents if you can manage to spin it that way. Now, you want to attempt to turn that disdain for US policy into excuse for Obama to do it? Do you really think you're being intellectually honest here?

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jmotivator said:

So you assume that our State Department was just too inept to broker a deal? I tend to agree with you, but then that is my point.

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No, not inept, but the politics at the time didn't support a deal.

No, you really need to go back and read the account of what actually happened in Iraq that lead to the end of US involvement.

In US Exit from Iraq, Failed Efforts and Challenges

Maliki was more than willing to keep the US troops in Iraq but Obama, as is his established MO, kept undercutting the negotiation process and made it impossible to ever really negotiate a SOFA continuance. Obama broke off the talks when Maliki was still willing to negotiate:

On Aug. 13, Mr. Obama settled the matter in a conference call in which he ruled out the 10,000 troop option and a smaller 7,000 variant. The talks would proceed but the size of the force the United States might keep was shrunk: the new goal would be a continuous presence of about 3,500 troops, a rotating force of up to 1,500 and half a dozen F-16’s.

But there was no agreement. Some experts say that given the Iraqis’ concerns about sovereignty, and Iranian pressure, the politicians in Baghdad were simply not prepared to make the hard decisions that were needed to secure parliamentary approval. Others say the Iraqis sensed the Americans’ ambivalence and were being asked to make unpopular political decisions for a modest military benefit.

Ending the Effort

On Oct. 21, Mr. Obama held another videoconference with Mr. Maliki — his first such discussion since the talks began in June. The negotiations were over, and all of the American troops would be coming home.

Maliki actually favored the larger troop presence, it was the continuing down sizing by Obama that was hampering the deal as well as his juvenile attempts at reshuffling the Iraqi government as a prerequisite to a SOFA agreement.

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That's an excerpt from a book that portrays everything both the Bush and Obama administrations as bumbling idiots. It's a very good read, don't get me wrong, but it's also two military guys that typically completely discount politics. The President isn't a dictator.

The fact is, any extension of US troops required a new agreement. Any immunity for US forces requires a parliamentary vote, and while the book (and apparently Biden) believe the Iraqi Parliament would agree to it, Maliki was ON RECORD stating that immunity wouldn't be granted for US troops. Maybe he would of went back to his parliament and begged and pleaded and gotten the nay sayers to do a 180 but every indication is, it wasn't going to happen.

As for the book criticizing Obama for not whole-heartedly supporting troops in Iraq, probably not. Even proposing 7 thousand troops was Obama sticking his neck out. Americans wanted out of Iraq...plain and simple.

Which is my criticism of the authors. They act as if politics at the time is just a speed bump.

I'm sorry, what part of Maliki requesting US fighter jets and attack Helicopters come back to Iraq to attack ISIS are you not understanding?

More to the point, at the time Obama said he pledged US support for Iraq and.... did not a damn thing. He did what he is best at: He dithered.

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We were talking about the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. I'm aware that in late 2013 Malaki came to US requesting aid.

YES! Obama's military advisers requested a large scale troop involvement in Iraq partly to train the Iraqi military into a competent fighting force. We have known for many years that the Iraqi military was not ready for prime time. Why is it that only you and Obama seem to have been out of the loop?

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We have been training the Iraqi military and police force since I was there in 2003....There are a lot of issues in the Iraqi military and a couple more years of training wouldn't of made a difference. It goes back to the root problem I've been pointing out, but everyone is too focused on attacking Obama...the Maliki government is a cancer for that country. Maliki's toxic politics even touched the military. He replaced a very competent Sunni general with a Shiite officer. The Iraqi government hasn't probably been funding and properly training their force. The combat readiness of the Iraqi military plummeted due to horrible mismanagement by the Iraqi government.

It was the best he could have done. What he ended up doing was almost the worst possible thing he could have done. He inadvertently supported ISIS in Syria and left Iraq twisting in the wind.

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This goes in the "what????" category? You'll have to let me in how this occurred. Last I checked it was senior Republican Senators and Congressmen that wanted to flood the Syrian rebels with arms and equipment. Guess where those arms and equipment would of ended up?

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j-mac said:

Ok? But be aware that someone will fill that void.

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Yes, the void we created by invading. That's exactly what I tried to tell you back then. Many of us predicted this before we invaded. You destablize, and someone will fill the void. The invasion opened the door. When will we learn?

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Grant said:

Then what makes them so bitter towards Americans?

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From OBL to the current Islamic State, they tell us all the time, but you don't want to hear it.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

j-mac said:

Wait a dog gone minute here Monte....Your whole bent is to blame the US for its involvement in places you think we shouldn't be, mostly under Republican Presidents if you can manage to spin it that way. Now, you want to attempt to turn that disdain for US policy into excuse for Obama to do it? Do you really think you're being intellectually honest here?

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Not at all. I've pointed out consistently that for DECADES, us policy has supported militant Islamic groups. Bush is responsible for the removal of Hussein who gave no quarters to militant Islamic groups, and Obama is at fault for the removal of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad. Obama gets no break with me, never has and you twist my position.

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Montecresto said:

Not at all.

I've pointed out consistently that for DECADES, us policy has supported militant Islamic groups.

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Bush is responsible for the removal of Hussein who gave no quarters to militant Islamic groups, and Obama is at fault for the removal of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad. Obama gets no break with me, never has and you twist my position.

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But are you saying the US has supported militant Islamist groups BECAUSE they are militant Islamists?
Be clear on what you think the motivation has been to support whoever we supported in each instance ... and you're free to distinguish motivation in each instance.

Re: Obama has had accurate intelligence about ISIS since BEFORE the 2012 election Re

Montecresto said:

Not at all. I've pointed out consistently that for DECADES, us policy has supported militant Islamic groups. Bush is responsible for the removal of Hussein who gave no quarters to militant Islamic groups, and Obama is at fault for the removal of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad. Obama gets no break with me, never has and you twist my position.

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I am not twisting anything...I read what you write, and comment on it...Nothing more, nothing less...If you take exception, maybe you should evaluate how you come across..