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Thread: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    How can you be sure that $135/hr is unreasonable? Ferguson is under the microscope of the DoJ and any mistake they make is likely to be blown WAY out of proportion so legal review of any release is imperative. On top of that any personal information released about personnel could result in that person being harassed or even harmed so, under the circumstances, the "due diligence" stakes increase exponentially from what they normally are. Frankly, $135/hr is dirt cheap for professional legal review services.
    Because even at time and a half, that works out to $90/hr. Even their lawyers don't make that much and they're charging that for the time the clerks spend on the requests
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    As the OP makes clear, it's the requestor who is paying (or more accurately, over paying) for the requests.

    And $135/hr is not "passing on the cost"
    Of course it is. Prove that it isn't.

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    2) There is no such thing as an "unreasonable volume of requests". Individual requests are either reasonable or not, and Ferguson is not claiming the requests are unreasonable (in which case they could simply deny the request)
    Nonsense. The second definition of "unreasonable" when googled says: "beyond the limits of acceptability or fairness." Is it or acceptable or fair to expect a normal clerk's office to complete let's estimate, conservatively, 10 times the normal amount of work in a period of time? You forget that these offices are staffed to meet only a normal level of work volume. Perhaps they are protecting their customers from an unreasonable amount of time it would take to handle their request if they were even more inundated with that request. An individual request may be reasonable, but when combined with thousands of others just like it become unreasonable for the office personnel in their volume.

    Besides, the AP hasn't even paid the bill yet. If many other organizations aren't paying their bills the office may be trying to recuperate losses on other requests. e.g., if 5-6 other requests failed to pay the necessary fees it would be reasonable to raise prices to ensure that you can pay the people doing the work. Before you say that's unreasonable, it's a daily occurance in healthcare.

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Nonsense. The second definition of "unreasonable" when googled says: "beyond the limits of acceptability or fairness." Is it or acceptable or fair to expect a normal clerk's office to complete let's estimate, conservatively, 10 times the normal amount of work in a period of time? You forget that these offices are staffed to meet only a normal level of work volume. Perhaps they are protecting their customers from an unreasonable amount of time it would take to handle their request if they were even more inundated with that request. An individual request may be reasonable, but when combined with thousands of others just like it become unreasonable for the office personnel in their volume.
    Wrong. FOIA requests are not required to be filled immediately. In fact, there is no time limit.

    Besides, the AP hasn't even paid the bill yet. If many other organizations aren't paying their bills the office may be trying to recuperate losses on other requests. e.g., if 5-6 other requests failed to pay the necessary fees it would be reasonable to raise prices to ensure that you can pay the people doing the work. Before you say that's unreasonable, it's a daily occurance in healthcare.
    Now you're just making up facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. FOIA requests are not required to be filled immediately. In fact, there is no time limit.

    Now you're just making up facts.
    You don't even acknowledge the meat of my arguments, much less respond to them.

    The nature of your second criticism is so imprecise that responding to it would be quite literally unreasonable (i.e., not guided by or based on good sense). Considering that I no longer believe your goal is to understand another point of view besides your own, I am retiring from the conversation. Have a good afternoon.

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    You don't even acknowledge the meat of my arguments, much less respond to them.
    Nonsense. You claimed the volume was unreasonable because it would take longer for them to process a large # of requests on a timely basis. Thee fact is that there is no time limit.

    The nature of your second criticism is so imprecise that responding to it would be quite literally unreasonable (i.e., not guided by or based on good sense). Considering that I no longer believe your goal is to understand another point of view besides your own, I am retiring from the conversation. Have a good afternoon.
    Imprecise? You claim that there may be some other, unnamed, orgs that aren't paying their bill and that maybe that's the cause of the high price and then you think *I* am being imprecise?

    Since you're such a fan of precision, why don't you tell us how much Ferguson has incurred in unpaid bills for this service?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. FOIA requests are not required to be filled immediately. In fact, there is no time limit.



    Now you're just making up facts.

    you are right, those requests dont have a time limit

    but let me ask you

    what would be the story, if the AP, UPI, and other MAJOR news agencies werent getting back their requests in a somewhat timely fashion?

    would it be "they arent responding....they are hiding ****....probably deleting files....and so on, and so on"

    come on....answer truthfully.....if it took months to get the stuff out, isnt that what the story would be?

    so....better to do it faster, with extra help, and overtime...and charge what some call unreasonable fees, or not to get the stuff out for LONG periods of time?

    what do you prefer?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Because even at time and a half, that works out to $90/hr. Even their lawyers don't make that much and they're charging that for the time the clerks spend on the requests
    Like I said, the clerks probably aren't the ones handling these requests. If I was making the decisions in Ferguson regarding this issue it wouldn't even be my staff filling the requests. I'd have a third party doing it just for an extra level of separation.

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nonsense. You claimed the volume was unreasonable because it would take longer for them to process a large # of requests on a timely basis. Thee fact is that there is no time limit.

    Imprecise? You claim that there may be some other, unnamed, orgs that aren't paying their bill and that maybe that's the cause of the high price and then you think *I* am being imprecise?

    Since you're such a fan of precision, why don't you tell us how much Ferguson has incurred in unpaid bills for this service?
    It is exactly your imprecision while reading which puts you in these predicaments. The word "if" indicates a conditional clause, not an outright statement of fact.

    I shouldn't even bother with this, as you won't take the time to understand the nuance anyways.

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    Re: Ferguson Demands High Fees To Turn Over City Files

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Since you're such a fan of precision, why don't you tell us how much Ferguson has incurred in unpaid bills for this service?
    And here we have a sterling example of an unreasonable request.

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