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Thread: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tameamea View Post
    Just curious why you needed to get personal and to diagnose me. Still, you are obviously not House M.D.
    And if you haven't noticed, I was talking about the law, not my personal experience. Be attentive, use the context.
    I didn't get personal or diagnose you. I asked a question which addresses the point you made about being unclear about whether there was consent.

    And if you haven't noticed, my point (like yours) applies to all so take your own advice about context.
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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201320140SB967

    The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.
    "Incapacitated" is the key word here. The reports about a drunk person not being able to consent are incorrect, although, I do see the potential for abuse here depending on how "incapacitated" is interpreted.

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tameamea View Post
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    I just wonder how they are going to make it work. I mean, how two people are going to express or confirm their mutual consent before sex? Cause all these nods and movements are not solid especially when you are drunk. You need something more trustworthy, something that would prove you were serious the next morning.
    I suggest some fast sex consent services, preferably automatic, than would scan you two and print a written consent.
    That is the really strange thing about this consent legislation. In essence two drunk college students having sex are BOTH guilty of rape.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201320140SB967



    "Incapacitated" is the key word here. The reports about a drunk person not being able to consent are incorrect, although, I do see the potential for abuse here depending on how "incapacitated" is interpreted.
    It is interpreted by the school's adminstration based on the "preponderance of evidence" (another of those imprecise terms that riddle our legal code).

    If a student doesn't want to be subjected to the "whims" of a school's adminstrative staff, they can enroll elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is the really strange thing about this consent legislation. In essence two drunk college students having sex are BOTH guilty of rape.
    That has always been true, both before and after this law and both in and outside of college.

    The same can be said of assault. Two people can get into a fight with no witnesses and accuse the other of assaulting them. In that case, it's "he said, he said" just like a rape accusation
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, those little floppy definitions certainly aren't going to blow up in our face. Oh wait...that's exactly what it'll do.
    What do you expect, an exact blood alcohol limit at the point of penetration? All laws (pseudo-legalistic rules) will inevitably have somewhat open definitions. In part it's a good thing since there should always be some scope for judges and juries to interpret based on the specific circumstances.

    The only point I was making is that this law (like most others) is significantly more solid and structured than many people are imagining based on their reading of a brief news article.

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201320140SB967



    "Incapacitated" is the key word here. The reports about a drunk person not being able to consent are incorrect, although, I do see the potential for abuse here depending on how "incapacitated" is interpreted.
    Yes means yes if you're drunk and capacitated but yes means no if you're drunk and incapacitated, so all the guy (or gal) needs to do is determine whether or not their partner is able to make rational decisions. Clear as mud.

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Now that this bill has passed, let's look at two scenarios.

    First, a student at some state college goes to a frat party and hooks up with someone. They both get drunk and end up having sex. The next day a complaint is filed and it is later determined by "someone" that the girl was too drunk to give proper consent.

    Second, a guy(not a student) goes out to the bar one night and hooks up with someone.(also not a student) They both get drunk and end up having sex. The next day the girl files a complaint with local authorities.

    What happens differently under scenario #2? Are the same standards of consent applied in both cases? If they are, is it law enforcement that is making the determination in both cases? I guess what I am getting at is are colleges, because of this law, being asked to more or less "investigate" criminal matters?


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Now that this bill has passed, let's look at two scenarios.

    First, a student at some state college goes to a frat party and hooks up with someone. They both get drunk and end up having sex. The next day a complaint is filed and it is later determined by "someone" that the girl was too drunk to give proper consent.

    Second, a guy(not a student) goes out to the bar one night and hooks up with someone.(also not a student) They both get drunk and end up having sex. The next day the girl files a complaint with local authorities.

    What happens differently under scenario #2? Are the same standards of consent applied in both cases?
    Both before and after this law passed, the legal code applied the same standards regardless of gender

    If they are, is it law enforcement that is making the determination in both cases?
    This law is about sexual assault on campus and how the administration of those colleges deal with it, so it has no effet on how law enforcement deals with the issue.

    I guess what I am getting at is are colleges, because of this law, being asked to more or less "investigate" criminal matters?
    Colleges were investigating sexual assaults on campus before the law was passed. This law doesn't change that nor does it require them to do anything
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: California bill requiring college students to give consent before sex becomes law

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is the really strange thing about this consent legislation. In essence two drunk college students having sex are BOTH guilty of rape.
    I'm afraid there is this problem of a man being always guilty for sex with a woman. You know, some of the feminism activists even say that there's no such thing as reverse chauvinism, and, consequently, 'reverse' rape.
    I didn't like this law because it, in fact, has nothing to do with justice in the first place.

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