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Thread: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

  1. #51
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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Getting lost in the details and missing the point is clearly what you're doing. Want to talk about how we've been supporting the Saudi regime since the 50's and helped them institute Wahhabism is something I've read all about, but don't care to go into detail. Trying to debate the reasoning for their disputes and internal conflicts is meaningless.

    Keep it short and simple about how we've been playing one religion, sect and region against the other, to keep things in check for energy resources.
    We didn't help them institute 'Wahhabism'. Mohammed ibn al-Wahhab did that in the 18th Century when he began his clerical campaign against lax religious practice and formed the crucial political-religious pact (1744) with the House of Saud which remains in force to this day. Saudi efforts to support transnational Islamist thought, schools, ideology, etc have their genesis in the existential confrontation with Nasser's Arab Republicanism and the subsequent decision to absorb preachers and thinkers from the Muslim Brotherhood after his crackdown. You can discount the details all you want but it just exposes that you aren't on familiar ground.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Why is everything always one extreme or the other? You offer two polar opposites eliminating all the rational choices in between, which has become the typical response of our gov't.

    I don't need to travel the world to have a political opinion. And I surely wouldn't go to that region.





    That's all I try to do, is keep a light on areas of neglect and privileged position. The real trouble is usually not what we hear of as the causes, but a PR job by the powers to be.

    They say, the 2008 Recession was caused by the banks and they shouldn't be too big to fail. Now, the top 5 are larger than ever and definitely too large to fail, so the question begs, why the cover-ups? A very wise person once told me, follow the money for the root of problems.




    McCain is a war monger and damaged goods from his prisoner of war experience. Helix put it in a proper context, that we should apply pressure for an alliance from the oil rich nations in the area that have a larger stake in the outcome than even us.
    I offer a factual representation of what that region is like. You want some fairy tale based on the population of your local bowling league.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We didn't help them institute 'Wahhabism'. Mohammed ibn al-Wahhab did that in the 18th Century when he began his clerical campaign against lax religious practice and formed the crucial political-religious pact (1744) with the House of Saud which remains in force to this day. Saudi efforts to support transnational Islamist thought, schools, ideology, etc have their genesis in the existential confrontation with Nasser's Arab Republicanism and the subsequent decision to absorb preachers and thinkers from the Muslim Brotherhood after his crackdown. You can discount the details all you want but it just exposes that you aren't on familiar ground.
    Saudi Arabia's internal discord and tensions over ISIS can only be understood by grasping the inherent (and persisting) duality that lies at the core of the Kingdom's doctrinal makeup and its historical origins.

    One dominant strand to the Saudi identity pertains directly to Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab (the founder of Wahhabism), and the use to which his radical, exclusionist puritanism was put by Ibn Saud. (The latter was then no more than a minor leader -- amongst many -- of continually sparring and raiding Bedouin tribes in the baking and desperately poor deserts of the Nejd.)

    The second strand to this perplexing duality, relates precisely to King Abd-al Aziz's subsequent shift towards statehood in the 1920s: his curbing of Ikhwani violence (in order to have diplomatic standing as a nation-state with Britain and America); his institutionalization of the original Wahhabist impulse -- and the subsequent seizing of the opportunely surging petrodollar spigot in the 1970s, to channel the volatile Ikhwani current away from home towards export -- by diffusing a cultural revolution, rather than violent revolution throughout the Muslim world.

    OIL WEALTH SPREAD WAHHABISM

    With the advent of the oil bonanza -- as the French scholar, Giles Kepel writes, Saudi goals were to "reach out and spread Wahhabism across the Muslim world ... to "Wahhabise" Islam, thereby reducing the "multitude of voices within the religion" to a "single creed" -- a movement which would transcend national divisions. Billions of dollars were -- and continue to be -- invested in this manifestation of soft power.

    It was this heady mix of billion dollar soft power projection -- and the Saudi willingness to manage Sunni Islam both to further America's interests, as it concomitantly embedded Wahhabism educationally, socially and culturally throughout the lands of Islam -- that brought into being a western policy dependency on Saudi Arabia, a dependency that has endured since Abd-al Aziz's meeting with Roosevelt on a U.S. warship (returning the president from the Yalta Conference) until today.

    You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia*|*Alastair Crooke


    Wahhabism is a bunch of extremism that was supported by Saudi oil wealth and our governments blessing. They were the originator's of this Muslim fundamentalism. You talk about details when you don't even really understand the causes of the Saudi duality. There's a whole page of details, so dig in and see what you think.



    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I offer a factual representation of what that region is like. You want some fairy tale based on the population of your local bowling league.
    I guess your factual understanding is leading to policies of how to resolve the issues? No, I didn't think so.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    How was AL-Qaeda so well established in Saudi Arabia before to accomplish such an attack? And why did they recruit so many of the attackers from there? Those questions have never really been asked or answered.

    And why haven't the Saudi's had more involvement in helping with Iraq? It seems to me they just sit back and rake in trillions of petrol dollars, while we clean up all the surrounding messes.
    I can't understand why we have people on this board defending the worlds chief sponsor of terrorism and the attackers of 9/11!

    Let’s be clear: Al Qaeda, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, Boko Haram, the Shabab and others are all violent Sunni Salafi groupings. For five decades, Saudi Arabia has been the official sponsor of Sunni Salafism across the globe.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/op...hate.html?_r=0


    After the 9/11 attacks, the public was told al Qaeda acted alone, with no state sponsors.
    But the White House never let it see an entire section of Congress’ investigative report on 9/11 dealing with “specific sources of foreign support” for the 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were Saudi nationals.
    It was kept secret and remains so today.
    President Bush inexplicably censored 28 full pages of the 800-page report. Text isn’t just blacked-out here and there in this critical-yet-missing middle section. The pages are completely blank, except for dotted lines where an estimated 7,200 words once stood (this story by comparison is about 1,000 words).
    A pair of lawmakers who recently read the redacted portion say they are “absolutely shocked” at the level of foreign state involvement in the attacks.
    Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.) can’t reveal the nation identified by it without violating federal law. So they’ve proposed Congress pass a resolution asking President Obama to declassify the entire 2002 report, “Joint Inquiry Into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001.”

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-...i-911-coverup/
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-01-14 at 02:41 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I can't understand why we have people on this board defending the worlds chief sponsor of terrorism and the attackers of 9/11!

    Let’s be clear: Al Qaeda, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, Boko Haram, the Shabab and others are all violent Sunni Salafi groupings. For five decades, Saudi Arabia has been the official sponsor of Sunni Salafism across the globe.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/op...hate.html?_r=0

    They learn just enough of PR spewed nonsense, to glam onto the gov't narrative, and pat themselves on the back. It's an oil/money game that has been playing out for nearly a century, with us confusing the issue for ulterior motives.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Im beginning to think that the Saudi princes have secret damning pictures of the last 4 US presidents since everytime they start clamoring for an armed intervention the US comes over and fights as their lapdog. We're being used by these fanatical Wahhabists time and time again and yet we keep doing it.

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Im beginning to think that the Saudi princes have secret damning pictures of the last 4 US presidents since everytime they start clamoring for an armed intervention the US comes over and fights as their lapdog. We're being used by these fanatical Wahhabists time and time again and yet we keep doing it.
    They've got too much in resources, money and power that have created political influence in our gov't. And they've been playing duplicitous games, with their own hypocritical ideology of living like western capitalists but supporting fundie groups.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    They've got too much in resources, money and power that have created political influence in our gov't. And they've been playing duplicitous games, with their own hypocritical ideology of living like western capitalists but supporting fundie groups.
    Saudi Arabia cannot get involved directly in Yemen with being torn apart by the same sectarian violence typical of the region.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Saudi Arabia cannot get involved directly in Yemen with being torn apart by the same sectarian violence typical of the region.
    Saudi Arabia apparently can't get directly involved with anything that might cost them? But, if they don't straighten up their A game, we'll be increasing our own petrol resources and booting them to the curb. Then their reign of subversive fanaticism and money control will start to fade away.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Saudi Arabia warns Yemen violence could threaten global security

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    They've got too much in resources, money and power that have created political influence in our gov't. And they've been playing duplicitous games, with their own hypocritical ideology of living like western capitalists but supporting fundie groups.
    If its all about the oil then what I dont understand is why doesnt the US spend billions on developing our own oil wells instead of spending trillions (and losing our soldiers) on fighting proxy wars for Saudi Arabia. US shale oil estimates state that we have more oil potential than the entire middle east combined- its baffling that we have to pay high gas prices because the Arabs set the price of oil when we could easily start drilling our own and become energy independent.

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