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ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

imagep said:
The only way to defeat radical Islamic terrorists and regimes is to eliminate the radical element of Islam. We can't do that by bombs, it has to be done socially, and I'm not sure that the US can change the social nature of people in a country on the other side of the world.

The best we can do is likely to contain them to the territory that they already have control over. Works for me, because as long as we can keep them over there, we don't have to worry about them being here.
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Agree with the first paragraph.

I've never bought into the second paragraph. Granted, they're not doing much here relatively, but I don't think it's because they're so easily distracted like a bunch of little kids.
 
imagep said:
American lives are very important to the US, much more so than the lives of people in other countries, particularly when those people won't bother to fight for their own lives. Our government is the government of the US, not the world, it's simply not the responsibility of the US government to police the world or to protect the world. I don't mind helping, it's probably our responsibility as humans, but you really can't help someone who isn't trying or who won't help themselves.

I wouldn't risk one US life for a hundred lives of foreign citizens who won't bother to defend themselves.
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It's not only a question of whether we can or should help, but whether our efforts ARE helping. Did we really help Iraq when we toppled Saddam and left a power vacuum there? I mean, the guy was bad news, but maybe the Israelis are right: Better the enemy you know than the one you don't. I mean, we have all of these people saying we need to get rid of Assad, but who's going to take his place? Sometimes, believe it or not, a civil war is the best way to settle an argument, because eventually one side either loses or the parties come to some sort of understanding, unlike in Iraq where there was (and is) a lot of resentment on the part of Sunnis against the Shiite-dominated regime. Maybe they just need to slug it out. Maybe Iraq would be better off partitioned into Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish regions. Regardless, these are not questions for the U.S. to decide.
 
Grant said:
Have you been told that one air strike a day is the same as 300?
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So now airstrikes are not a waste of fuel as long as you do 300 a day? How about we strike when there are targets to eliminate like Obama said. Too complicated for you?
 
Thrilla said:
as anyone who has basic knowledge of military doctrine will tell you, air strikes are a support component.

such support is absolutely necessary, but it is not, in and of itself, capable of defeating any enemy.... especially a non-conventional enemy.
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Air strikes typical precede any on the ground operations we have done recently. Do you remember how many weeks of airstrikes preceded ground operations in Kuwait or Iraq? I guess the Generals didn't have a clue unlike you? They serve to "soften up" the enemy and play havoc with Command/Control and supply lines, supporting ground troops comes later. Obama never said there would be no ground troops just not American.
 
Cryptic said:
Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/meast/isis-fighter-and-defector-interviews/index.

Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
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WOW, our military is inept....

The real question is did our military WANT to be successful???

We only have GPS guided missals, and if Obama really wanted to could tell the time on my watch from a recon satellite..
 
Mr.Nick said:
WOW, our military is inept....

The real question is did our military WANT to be successful???

We only have GPS guided missals, and if Obama really wanted to could tell the time on my watch from a recon satellite..
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No our military is not inept. Its just that targetting some types of irregular groups is far more difficult than you think.
 
cpwill said:
They appear to be getting ready to take another one on the Syria / Turkey border right now...
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I heard. 6 bombs last night is annoying, not disruptive. A bombing campaign requires actionable intelligence on the ground to make an iron curtain around a city. They have to expend tons of munitions to make it work. 6 targets last night is not effective.
 
Grant said:
Who won't bother to defend themselves???

These people are fighting with small arms against the heavily armed ISIS...
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Sure, the people being attacked by ISIS (sometimes) fight, but many more just run off.

The Iraqi army had much more than small arms, but they ran off and left their weapons, tanks, etc to ISIS.

Why haven't we heard a single report (recently) that the Iraq army was engaging ISIS. Seems to me that they could get together at least one division, or even just a batalion or two of soldiers who are willing to fight.
 
Cryptic said:
Sadly, such a policy only makes it more likely that we will have to worry about them here. Jihadi sees the west as evil and will eventually attack it, no matter what the actions of a particular nation are, or are not.

Allowing Jihadis to establish psuedo states only allows them to recruit, train, fund raise and network openly and on a vast scale. This is exactly what happened in the Taliban portions of Afghanistan and this directly facilitated 9-11.
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They are recruiting these people from all over the world, including some Americans. I say "good riddance", I'd much prefer to ship our muslum extremest over there, than to have them here. It would be cool with me if all of them gathered in current ISIS controlled teritory, to the point that most of the people there were ISIS, and then it would be much easier to kill them all. Right now finding them is a needle in a haystack, but if they all group together, it becomes a haystack of needles.
 
Blue_State said:
I heard. 6 bombs last night is annoying, not disruptive. A bombing campaign requires actionable intelligence on the ground to make an iron curtain around a city. They have to expend tons of munitions to make it work. 6 targets last night is not effective.
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Ever wonder if maybe the strength and size of ISIS has been exagerated? Like maybe 6 targets was all there was to be had. From some of the reports that I have read, it's just taking one Mad Max style pickup truck of ISIS fighters to take over an entire village, and a few dozen ISIS fighters to take over entire military installations maned with hundreds of Iraqi soldiers.

Maybe it's like a pathetic football team (think worst pro-football team in the NFL), beating the crap out of an even more pathetic football team (worst high school team), and thus looking strong and powerful.
 
If we keep hitting grain silos and killing civilians just on their way to work, they are probably right.

Has anyone even given the thought to the possibility that since this group and others were born out of the uprising in Syria against Assad, that during the time when we began giving aid and comfort to these groups, they learned very quickly from our people secretly on the ground what our targeting priorities and methodology were?

Airstrikes Hit Grain Silo, Gas Plant in Syria, Activists Say - NBC News
 
SayMyName said:
If we keep hitting grain silos and killing civilians just on their way to work, they are probably right.

Has anyone even given the thought to the possibility that since this group and others were born out of the uprising in Syria against Assad, that during the time when we began giving aid and comfort to these groups, they learned very quickly from our people secretly on the ground what our targeting priorities and methodology were?

Airstrikes Hit Grain Silo, Gas Plant in Syria, Activists Say - NBC News
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The video is no longer up. Makes me wonder if it was taken down because it was a hoax or something of that nature.

I've noticed several articles from a number of different sources have only been on the net for a limited amount of time and then they disappear. Hmm.
 
SayMyName said:
If we keep hitting grain silos and killing civilians just on their way to work, they are probably right.

Has anyone even given the thought to the possibility that since this group and others were born out of the uprising in Syria against Assad, that during the time when we began giving aid and comfort to these groups, they learned very quickly from our people secretly on the ground what our targeting priorities and methodology were?

Airstrikes Hit Grain Silo, Gas Plant in Syria, Activists Say - NBC News
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The video is no longer up. Makes me wonder if it was taken down because it was a hoax or something of that nature.

I've noticed several articles from a number of different sources have only been on the net for a limited amount of time and then they disappear. Hmm.
 
imagep said:
The video is no longer up. Makes me wonder if it was taken down because it was a hoax or something of that nature.

I've noticed several articles from a number of different sources have only been on the net for a limited amount of time and then they disappear. Hmm.
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Interesting that you bring that up. I am seeing more and more articles and pages not being displayed on the internet, and not because they have been taken down by the authors themselves.

Could be an interesting new thread somewhere for discussion.
 
imagep said:
The Iraqi army had much more than small arms, but they ran off and left their weapons, tanks, etc to ISIS.
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From what I've been reading it was an issue of leadership, or the lack thereof. Some of them undoubtedly will end up joining militias. So here we have $25 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars used for training cowards, militias, and equipping ISIS. So let's send 'em more!

Iraqi soldier who fought with Americans says decision to flee left him feeling ashamed | Iraq | McClatchy DC
 
iguanaman said:
Except the Germans or the others did not ask us to leave and the President did not sign an agreement to do that. I'm afraid the Iraqi's were ungrateful and hate Americans. Why did Bush sign an agreement to get out? Because the Iraqi's would not agree to anything but that. A set date for our total withdrawal which they petitioned the U.N. for.
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You are not an authority on what Iraq would or would not agree to. You are pulling it out of your hat.
 
ObamacareFail said:
You are not an authority on what Iraq would or would not agree to. You are pulling it out of your hat.
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No, But I believe Bush had a good deal of info when he signed that agreement to have ALL troops out by 2011. That was not his idea was it? Was it his idea for the Iraqi's to go to the U.N and demand they end U.S authority to remain in Iraq meaning that we would be out by the end of 2008? The Iraqi's clearly wanted us to leave. We can debate whether we should have listened but that's all.
 
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iguanaman said:
No, But I believe Bush had a good deal of info when he signed that agreement to have ALL troops out by 2011. That was not his idea was it? Was it his idea for the Iraqi's to go to the U.N and demand they end U.S authority to remain in Iraq meaning that we would be out by the end of 2008? The Iraqi's clearly wanted us to leave. We can debate whether we should have listened but that's all.
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What the **** does Bush have to do with any of this?

Of course Obama isn't a massive idiot - hes ****ing Stephen Hawking that has to deal with Bush policies...

Seriously wake the **** up man...

Obama make Jimmy Carter look like Albert Einstein.

Only Obama and his minions could ****up doping bombs with guidance systems...

How do you **** that up exactly?

A kid 6000 miles away flying a drone could complete such a mission.

Given Obamas job - he is no better than the special kid that ****s up bagging your groceries.... Sure you will find the bread with the orange juice.
 
imagep said:
American lives are very important to the US, much more so than the lives of people in other countries, particularly when those people won't bother to fight for their own lives. Our government is the government of the US, not the world, it's simply not the responsibility of the US government to police the world or to protect the world. I don't mind helping, it's probably our responsibility as humans, but you really can't help someone who isn't trying or who won't help themselves.

I wouldn't risk one US life for a hundred lives of foreign citizens who won't bother to defend themselves.
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He always demands the US does the heavy lifting. Can't figure out why he doesn't demand it of Canada!
 
Montecresto said:
He always demands the US does the heavy lifting. Can't figure out why he doesn't demand it of Canada!
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Canada only has a population of 300k what do you expect....
 
Mr.Nick said:
Canada only has a population of 300k what do you expect....
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Are you making a funny, or do you really not know that there are 35 million?
 
Montecresto said:
Are you making a funny, or do you really not know that there are 35 million?
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That still means it takes ten Canadians to equal one American, if you count Eskimos and walruses. ;)
 
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