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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Thats great if you want to get our small highly trained operators killed

    There is only so much a few men can do
    Well, 5th Group basically conquered half of Afghanistan.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the history of the Taliban is indeed a series of facts. Facts you seem generally to have a very hazy grasp on. If I were to say that they were a neo-Deobandi blend of Wahhabism, would you even know what that means without looking it up? Could you even point to Miram Shah on a map?

    How about if I were to say that MMO will likely re-don the cloak? That's a bit less obscure.



    That is incorrect. 9/11 changed the Bush administration from one whose approach was to avoid nation-building and adventurism abroad into one that was unwilling to sustain the threat of a Saddam Hussein. No 9/11, no invasion of Iraq, or even desire to do so.

    However, I find it entertaining that for you, causality goes back in history until you find someone you don't like and stops there, rather than actions simply being the fault of those who take them.
    It is even worse when you actually try and understand something and then refuse to face the facts because it conflicts with you narrow minded world view. It sucks to be wrong but it sucks even more when you know you are wrong but are powerless to admit it. I will leave you to your suffering.
    As the Russians withdrew from Afghanistan in early 1989, American policymakers celebrated with champagne, while the country itself collapsed into virtual anarchy. Almost a quarter of the population was living in refugee camps and most of the country was in ruins. Different factions of the mujahideen struggled for power in the countryside, while the government of Muhammed Najibullah, the last Soviet-installed president controlled Kabul. Eventually, in April 1992, Kabul fell to some of the mujahideen factions and Burhannudin Rabbani was de dared president, but civil war continued unabated. Hekmatyar in particular was dissatisfied with the new distribution 0 power. With his huge stock of U.S.-supplied weapons, h began an artillery and rocket assault on Kabul that lasted for almost three years, even after he was appointed prime minister in 1993. "The barrage...killed more than 10,000 Afghans [drove] hundreds of thousands into squalid refugee camps, created political chaos, and blocked millions of exiles from returning." The rest of the country disintegrated into isolated fiefdoms dominated by local warlords.

    In 1994, a new group, the Taliban (Pashtun for "students"), emerged on the scene. Its members came from madrassas set up by the Pakistani government along the border and funded by the U.S., Britain, and the Saudis, where they had received theological indoctrination and military training. Thousands of young men-refugees and orphans from the war in Afghanistan-became the foot soldiers of this movement:
    These boys were from a generation who had never seen their country at peace-an Afghanistan not at war with invaders and itself. They had no memories of their tribes, their elders, their neighbors nor the complex ethnic mix of peoples that made up their villages and their homeland. These boys were what the war had thrown up like the sea's surrender on the beach of history ...
    Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-12-14 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Not well fought? Pardon me in my myopia, but where it concerned South Vietnam Tic-tac-toe probably would have been the better choice, because we sacrificed 58,286 pawns in a gambit to keep the place from going communist. If the locus of our resistance to communist expansion is measured in body count then our brilliant leadership inside the Beltway failed miserably. And it was "communist," not just "Soviet" expansion we were presumably resisting, so we shouldn't exclude the PRC. It hasn't collapsed yet either, even though it, like the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, has had somewhat of a change of heart where it concerns capitalism. (Recall that in respect to Vietnam, China, not the Soviet Union, was our main concern regarding any possible invasion of North Vietnam, lest we repeat our quagmire in Korea when we crossed the 38th Parallel and China entered the war. The Brain Trust didn't figure out North Vietnam and China were not on the best of terms until well after we threw in the towel.)
    I love it when anti-war crazies start standing on the bodies of those who fought in those wars and pretend to speak for them. This tactic is not new. To use body count as a protest to war is such an old and worn out, but surprisingly effective, means to a rhetorical argument. I believe the reason it is so effective is because its easier to not actually research the underlying causes of a conflict and determine the right or wrong of it. It's so much easier to spout nonsensical rhetoric so that one can be lazy and say... "See, its just that easy to understand"! Rhetorical propaganda of the likes of which you spout, is the reason Americans are as deep as the gold on the fake plated jewelry they wear. They don't need to be educated when they think they can understand such things with blanket one line rhetorical statements that really say nothing and have no educational value at all.

    How can I miss it? Or Cambodia? Or Bosnia? Or Kosovo? Or Kurdistan? Or DR Congo? Or Sudan? Or Somalia? Or Rwanda? Or any of the several score genocides or humanitarian crises that have occurred around the globe over the past few decades? Where it concerns warfare as an extension of foreign policy, I take the Eisenhower/Ron Paul approach: choose your fights carefully, making sure that vital U.S. interests are at stake, but if you do decide to wield a stick make sure it's the biggest mother****er on the block and don't be afraid to crack heads. You see, the problem with so many of our so-called leaders is they've never been to war, but they think the Army is the solution to everything, at least until they miscalculate and then cut their losses as Johnson/Nixon did in Vietnam, Reagan did in Lebanon, Clinton did in Somalia, and Bush/Obama did in Iraq. (Johnson and Bush did the miscalculation in Vietnam and Iraq, respectively, while Nixon and Obama cut the losses.)
    The failings of every conflict you listed is the result of the rhetoric you spouted in the first paragraph you wrote. Why has America been so lousy at war since WW2. Because the uneducated populace are easily influenced by nonsensical rhetoric. If our enemies during WW2 knew it would be this easy to defeat the US in war, they would have used it. All it took to defeat the US in every conflict since WW2, despite the US's overwhelming advantage in each conflict, was a few lines of rhetorical propaganda.

    So my concern is that the Nuclear Warheads sitting in the beltway plotting strategy have already concluded that the only way to defeat ISIS will be to put Western (i.e., mostly American) boots on the ground and that they will, once again, forget to enter some critical thing into their models, at which point we'll find ourselves in another cluster****, with mothers and wives weeping over lost sons and husbands well past the day the policy wonks have moved on to the next crisis in some other unstable part of the world. Only in retrospect do the people left holding the bag realize that a little myopia on the part of their leaders might have been a useful thing.
    This is also why I am completely against putting US boots on the ground. Because we will be entering a battle that we don't have the resolve to fight. The minute a casket containing a US soldier arrives on our shorelines, we will be itching for a date to pack up and retreat. So why even go, if we will only defeat ourselves in the end. Inevitably, the war is lost no matter what the military does and the self prophecy of a cost to great to bear based on dead americans will suffice as a measure of that loss.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It is even worse when you actually try and understand something and then refuse to face the facts because it conflicts with you narrow minded world view. It sucks to be wrong but it sucks even more when you know you are wrong but are powerless to admit it. I will leave you to your suffering.
    Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban
    I find it deeply entertaining that you insist that I am incorrect and then cite a source agreeing with me .


    However, as long as you are willing to advocate a logic that blames ISIL on Russia.... hey, I can get behind that Blaming people you don't like for bad things that happen is easier than thinking, after all

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You will always blame Bush because that is what liberals do.
    Liberals are the blame game champs. They've become masters at it since Obama was sworn in.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I find it deeply entertaining that you insist that I am incorrect and then cite a source agreeing with me .


    However, as long as you are willing to advocate a logic that blames ISIL on Russia.... hey, I can get behind that Blaming people you don't like for bad things that happen is easier than thinking, after all
    So now you finally agree that the Taliban was caused by the Russian invasion just like ISIL was caused by the U.S invasion, now we are getting somewhere. Invading countries is a tricky business we can agree on that at least
    You know all about blaming people you don't like I'll give you that. It just not that simple though. Repeating the same things expecting different results is insane. Obama will not repeat Bush's mistakes in the M.E. and that is what you want I'm afraid.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-12-14 at 07:03 PM.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Liberals are the blame game champs. They've become masters at it since Obama was sworn in.
    So you don't blame anyone for Benghazi or Iraq? LOL. Conservatives have NOTHING but blame for all the wrong people.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, 5th Group basically conquered half of Afghanistan.
    And let Bin Laden go. Don't forget that. We also had allies in Afghanistan, our "allies" in Iraq will be the Iranian guard and a Shiite army that won't fight in Sunnis areas. We will no doubt have heavy casualties and extreme civilian ones. This is exactly what ISIS wants. It will bring flocks of recruits running toward Iraq to fight "Crusade", the sequel to.....


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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So now you finally agree that the Taliban was caused by the Russian invasion just like ISIL was caused by the U.S invasion, now we are getting somewhere. Invading countries is a tricky business we can agree on that at least
    You know all about blaming people you don't like I'll give you that. It just not that simple though. Repeating the same things expecting different results is insane. Obama will not repeat Bush's mistakes in the M.E. and that is what you want I'm afraid.
    Since when do liberals learn from mistakes? Our military wins wars and Democrats lose them. Too many people like you who don't understand the world at all as you try to judge everyone else by your own standards. Our Military won the war in Iraq, Obama lost the peace. Now our incompetent President is playing a lot of golf and attending a lot of fund raisers carry less about our economy and foreign policies. You people live in an alternative universe and are incapable of admitting when wrong

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So now you finally agree that the Taliban was caused by the Russian invasion just like ISIL was caused by the U.S invasion, now we are getting somewhere.
    No. I am making fun of your stupid contention that the causality of history has a stopping point beyond "the decision to engage in the act".

    You know, really, the Russians wouldn't be so paranoid about their Near Abroad (and thus, wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan) if the Mongols' hadn't swept through and demonstrated the strategic necessity of doing so lo those many centuries ago... so really this ISIL organization is probably Ghenghis Khan's fault.

    Invading countries is a tricky business we can agree on that at least
    True enough.

    You know all about blaming people you don't like I'll give you that. It just not that simple though. Repeating the same things expecting different results is insane. Obama will not repeat Bush's mistakes in the M.E. and that is what you want I'm afraid.
    Let me cite a well known figure here: "Don't do stupid **** is not an organizing principle".

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