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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I glad you came to your senses and no longer support US combat troops on the ground in Iraq or Syria. You're showing a rare case of good judgment.
    On the contrary - I'm still in favor of limited ground engagement, where we can do quite a lot of good for little payment. Which makes your post above no less a strawman.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Is that what war is to you? Is it humanitarian to subject a region to eternal war? How many civilians have died there since we got involved do you think? Actually they were the lucky ones.
    yeah. Because the ones who have died after we decided not to involve ourselves have been crucified.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah. Because the ones who have died after we decided not to involve ourselves have been crucified.
    Where as before they were only blown to pieces. Much more humane. Now dare we not blow up civilians so they won't be crucified.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Is that what war is to you? Is it humanitarian to subject a region to eternal war? How many civilians have died there since we got involved do you think? Actually they were the lucky ones. As long as we do all the meddling there will never be a resolution. Is that the goal?
    "Eternal war? Where did I suggest that? In fact when Obama pulled the troops from Iraq there were just 55 deaths for the entire year and that included auto accidents, etc. Now, three years later, it is hell.

    There is no need to guess at questions, or answers. You can just read the post and respond to the words therein. I'll do the same.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "Eternal war? Where did I suggest that? In fact when Obama pulled the troops from Iraq there were just 55 deaths for the entire year and that included auto accidents, etc. Now, three years later, it is hell.

    There is no need to guess at questions, or answers. You can just read the post and respond to the words therein. I'll do the same.
    You are deluded if you think there was any peace for the Iraqi people either when we were there OR after we left.

    Officially, Iraq is now a democracy… a far cry from the cruel dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, as echoed in the speeches of George W. Bush and Tony Blair, with its repression and brutality, torture, perpetual fear and terror. Or is it?

    A tyranny is a cruel and oppressive government or rule, with unrestrained exercise of power and undue severity or harshness. Iraqi democracy has all the characteristics of a tyranny. Since 2006 thousands have been arrested, imprisoned and tortured by the regime. Protesters have been shot at and killed, any insurgency is met with shelling that kills insurgents as well as civilians, while political opponents have been persecuted. In the past 2 years, since the US army has left Iraq, the situation has deteriorated to where now there are nightly shellings and mortar attacks by the Iraqi army, in addition to the terrorist acts which never ceased.

    In Ramadi and Fallujah, residents have accused government forces of illegally detaining citizens, torturing and raping them, while doctors and NGO workers accuse the government of war crimes. The Iraqi army is reportedly preventing medical supplies from entering the cities.
    The Iraqis, the “liberated” nation Bush had envisaged moving towards democracy and living in freedom, are captives of their own leaders, they are captives of their fragmented society and they are captives of the legacy left by American and British forces. Moreover, they are trapped in this captivity and are not allowed to escape it. They are not allowed by those in power and they are not allowed by those with the power of weapons -in Iraq, in the wider Middle East and in the West. Ultimately, it is the interests that are being fought on Iraqi soil that hold the population captive.

    The interests are political, financial, regional and wider foreign and they are the interests of local terrorist gangs, insurgents and political elites. Ironically, this has come as a result of an invasion that was purportedly done in the interest of the Iraqi population and it is they who have paid the highest price, with their freedom and their lives.
    https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analys...war-and-peace/

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary - I'm still in favor of limited ground engagement, where we can do quite a lot of good for little payment. Which makes your post above no less a strawman.
    Limited by what? How many casualties we can stomach? Our involvement will bring more recruits to ISIS and more misery for the people. Muslims have to fight this war or it means nothing. You know like invading Iraq meant nothing except more civilians being killed.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Limited by what? How many casualties we can stomach? Our involvement will bring more recruits to ISIS and more misery for the people. Muslims have to fight this war or it means nothing. You know like invading Iraq meant nothing except more civilians being killed.
    Which is why air strikes alone won't solve anything. If ISIS loses all their ground, then they lose who they are and just become another nameless terrorist organization with no access to resources or heavy equipment.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are deluded if you think there was any peace for the Iraqi people either when we were there OR after we left.

    https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analys...war-and-peace/
    Casualites from attacks did die down at the end of the Iraq War from terrorism attacks. Now yes the government turned out to be opressive, specifically towards the Sunnis, but to argue that there wasn't "any" peace, is a gross overstatement, considering the levels of violence prior to the surge.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Which is why air strikes alone won't solve anything. If ISIS loses all their ground, then they lose who they are and just become another nameless terrorist organization with no access to resources or heavy equipment.
    I'm confused. Resources and heavy equipment are very vulnerable to attacks from the air. It's when they hole up with civilians in the cities that require ground troops. ISIS would just love to lure us into that.... Why do you want to help them?

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I'm confused. Resources and heavy equipment are very vulnerable to attacks from the air. It's when they hole up with civilians in the cities that require ground troops. ISIS would just love to lure us into that.... Why do you want to help them?
    Understand right now how our air power is being used. To be able to strike at target, we have to first have someone identify it on the ground, then that report goes to wherever Central Command is for this operation, then the planes have to be launched and travel hours at a time to finally get to the target. There's no guarantee that when you get there, the target still will be. Hell let's say it's a tank they've identified. By the time the plane gets there, it may of been captured by friendly forces, and in that case, you've just ended killing you allies.

    If Air Power alone could win a war, I think the million tons of bombs that we dropped on Germany would of made them capitulate before a single allied troop stepped foot in Germany. In fact, there's only ever been one country to surrender to Air Power alone. And I highly doubt we're willing to duplicate those results... doubtful it cause the crazies to surrender anyways.

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