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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

  1. #341
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Why is it that those on the far right have this urge to insult others? Does it make you feel macho? Do you really think that you add anything to your argument or to the discussion by tossing in a few insults?

    And just wondering, but what is the cost to the US by not going into Rwanda? Best I know it hasn't cost me a dime. Rwanda isn't economically important to the US. I don't drink their tea or coffee, and they produce little else.
    I'm sorry your feelingz was hurt.

    'Cost'.

    Good ****ing lord.....

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...74.hJ7Oh-s2z1Q

  2. #342
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I never said the Viet Cong forced us to surrender. I said we walked away, letting them win by default. You were the one who injected the words "victory" and "defeat" into the discussion, so I'm just asking you to explain how we were victorious, notwithstanding the 58,272 names on the Vietnam Memorial.
    You still think the Viet Cong actually existed in 1972; that we left Vietnam in 1974. You're proving my point. Hel, you don't even know what the Viet Cong was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The USSR collapsed because every US president had the foresight to fight soviet expansion> Vietnam was just one of those fronts. It was a front not well fought, one that could have and absolutely should have been fought better, but one that needed to be fought.

    You want to continue your myopic world vision, be my guest. Thats why people like you play tic tac toe and world leaders play 3D chess.

    You may have missed it, but ISIS was doing a pretty steady business of butchering women and children. You want to sit back and allow **** like that...be my guest. We made a mistake ignoring the massacre in Rwanda and look at the cost. I suppose its easy for people to say "its not our problem". Think about how that plays out when your house is on fire or someone you love is being assaulted and others stand around saying meh...**** it...not my problem. Since Obama engaged ISIS ISIS is now having to deal with drones and air strikes. They are engaged militarily. Its a good start.
    While leftist Americans were/are critical of their governments during the Cold War, their fighting in Korea and Vietnam certainly impressed the Communists in Russia and China. When they realized that the American government would be prepared to fight Communism anywhere it certainly helped slow their international advancement. But of course the Communists in these countries always were a lot smarter than American leftists, and exploited them well. The jihadists are doing the same now.

  4. #344
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The USSR collapsed because every US president had the foresight to fight soviet expansion> Vietnam was just one of those fronts. It was a front not well fought, one that could have and absolutely should have been fought better, but one that needed to be fought.

    You want to continue your myopic world vision, be my guest. Thats why people like you play tic tac toe and world leaders play 3D chess.
    Not well fought? Pardon me in my myopia, but where it concerned South Vietnam Tic-tac-toe probably would have been the better choice, because we sacrificed 58,286 pawns in a gambit to keep the place from going communist. If the locus of our resistance to communist expansion is measured in body count then our brilliant leadership inside the Beltway failed miserably. And it was "communist," not just "Soviet" expansion we were presumably resisting, so we shouldn't exclude the PRC. It hasn't collapsed yet either, even though it, like the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, has had somewhat of a change of heart where it concerns capitalism. (Recall that in respect to Vietnam, China, not the Soviet Union, was our main concern regarding any possible invasion of North Vietnam, lest we repeat our quagmire in Korea when we crossed the 38th Parallel and China entered the war. The Brain Trust didn't figure out North Vietnam and China were not on the best of terms until well after we threw in the towel.)

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You may have missed it, but ISIS was doing a pretty steady business of butchering women and children. You want to sit back and allow **** like that...be my guest. We made a mistake ignoring the massacre in Rwanda and look at the cost. I suppose its easy for people to say "its not our problem". Think about how that plays out when your house is on fire or someone you love is being assaulted and others stand around saying meh...**** it...not my problem. Since Obama engaged ISIS ISIS is now having to deal with drones and air strikes. They are engaged militarily. Its a good start.
    How can I miss it? Or Cambodia? Or Bosnia? Or Kosovo? Or Kurdistan? Or DR Congo? Or Sudan? Or Somalia? Or Rwanda? Or any of the several score genocides or humanitarian crises that have occurred around the globe over the past few decades? Where it concerns warfare as an extension of foreign policy, I take the Eisenhower/Ron Paul approach: choose your fights carefully, making sure that vital U.S. interests are at stake, but if you do decide to wield a stick make sure it's the biggest mother****er on the block and don't be afraid to crack heads. You see, the problem with so many of our so-called leaders is they've never been to war, but they think the Army is the solution to everything, at least until they miscalculate and then cut their losses as Johnson/Nixon did in Vietnam, Reagan did in Lebanon, Clinton did in Somalia, and Bush/Obama did in Iraq. (Johnson and Bush did the miscalculation in Vietnam and Iraq, respectively, while Nixon and Obama cut the losses.)

    So my concern is that the Nuclear Warheads sitting in the beltway plotting strategy have already concluded that the only way to defeat ISIS will be to put Western (i.e., mostly American) boots on the ground and that they will, once again, forget to enter some critical thing into their models, at which point we'll find ourselves in another cluster****, with mothers and wives weeping over lost sons and husbands well past the day the policy wonks have moved on to the next crisis in some other unstable part of the world. Only in retrospect do the people left holding the bag realize that a little myopia on the part of their leaders might have been a useful thing.
    Нава́льный 2018

  5. #345
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You still think the Viet Cong actually existed in 1972....
    I don't recall mentioning any specific year regarding their activity other than the 1968 Tet Offensive, but, no, I was not under the impression the military wing of the National Liberation Front had ceased to exist before we departed the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    ... that we left Vietnam in 1974.
    Never said that, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    (Y)ou don't even know what the Viet Cong was.
    I'm curious how you divined this, since I never said anything concerning the nature of the Viet Cong. There seems to be a pattern in which you butcher my words. We'll have a problem carrying on a meaningful discussion if you can't get basic facts straight.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You see, the problem with so many of our so-called leaders is they've never been to war, but they think the Army is the solution to everything, at least until they miscalculate and then cut their losses as Johnson/Nixon did in Vietnam, Reagan did in Lebanon, Clinton did in Somalia, and Bush/Obama did in Iraq. (Johnson and Bush did the miscalculation in Vietnam and Iraq, respectively, while Nixon and Obama cut the losses.)
    I forgot to mention Truman's miscalculation in Korea, where he and his cabinet overplayed their hand and China entered the picture, fighting us to a stalemate for several years until Eisenhower made it clear to the Chinese that they should return to the bargaining table, or else....
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The bombing isn't in full swing and the targets aren't exactly standing in formation to be bombed. I am sure the strikes are hurting them or at least demoralizing them. A continued air campaign will degrade ISIS ability to take another city and will stall their efforts.
    They appear to be getting ready to take another one on the Syria / Turkey border right now...

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Not well fought? Pardon me in my myopia, but where it concerned South Vietnam Tic-tac-toe probably would have been the better choice, because we sacrificed 58,286 pawns in a gambit to keep the place from going communist. If the locus of our resistance to communist expansion is measured in body count then our brilliant leadership inside the Beltway failed miserably. And it was "communist," not just "Soviet" expansion we were presumably resisting, so we shouldn't exclude the PRC. It hasn't collapsed yet either, even though it, like the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, has had somewhat of a change of heart where it concerns capitalism. (Recall that in respect to Vietnam, China, not the Soviet Union, was our main concern regarding any possible invasion of North Vietnam, lest we repeat our quagmire in Korea when we crossed the 38th Parallel and China entered the war. The Brain Trust didn't figure out North Vietnam and China were not on the best of terms until well after we threw in the towel.)



    How can I miss it? Or Cambodia? Or Bosnia? Or Kosovo? Or Kurdistan? Or DR Congo? Or Sudan? Or Somalia? Or Rwanda? Or any of the several score genocides or humanitarian crises that have occurred around the globe over the past few decades? Where it concerns warfare as an extension of foreign policy, I take the Eisenhower/Ron Paul approach: choose your fights carefully, making sure that vital U.S. interests are at stake, but if you do decide to wield a stick make sure it's the biggest mother****er on the block and don't be afraid to crack heads. You see, the problem with so many of our so-called leaders is they've never been to war, but they think the Army is the solution to everything, at least until they miscalculate and then cut their losses as Johnson/Nixon did in Vietnam, Reagan did in Lebanon, Clinton did in Somalia, and Bush/Obama did in Iraq. (Johnson and Bush did the miscalculation in Vietnam and Iraq, respectively, while Nixon and Obama cut the losses.)

    So my concern is that the Nuclear Warheads sitting in the beltway plotting strategy have already concluded that the only way to defeat ISIS will be to put Western (i.e., mostly American) boots on the ground and that they will, once again, forget to enter some critical thing into their models, at which point we'll find ourselves in another cluster****, with mothers and wives weeping over lost sons and husbands well past the day the policy wonks have moved on to the next crisis in some other unstable part of the world. Only in retrospect do the people left holding the bag realize that a little myopia on the part of their leaders might have been a useful thing.
    I get it. You are that guy that pulls down the shades and turns off the lights when you hear someone screaming as they are being raped and then murdered on your doorstep. I understand you completely.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They appear to be getting ready to take another one on the Syria / Turkey border right now...
    Kobani is the town & it has more than 160,000 refugees. According to Ralph Peters the Isis Army could have been effectively bombed
    when they were out in the open before they entered the town with B52's or a similiar platform but Obama has our guys flying around with precision guided bombs good for pin prick strikes. Now that they are in the city, still fighting the Kurds the bombing is impossible without civilian casulties. There could be a slaughter of thousands if they take the city.

    You cant help but notice that the intensity & type of bombing fall miserably short of what is needed. Does Obama want to win here? I think its obvious he doesnt. He just wants to look like he's doing something so he is not blamed for the massacre that is going to take place if they take Kobani.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I get it. You are that guy that pulls down the shades and turns off the lights when you hear someone screaming as they are being raped and then murdered on your doorstep. I understand you completely.
    I'm the guy who remembers we were supposed to enter Iraq, remove Saddam from power, get welcomed as heroes, and then leave. It didn't quite work out that way. I'm the guy who remembers the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians--men, women, and children--who died after we left a power vacuum and destabilized the country. And I'm the guy who finds it problematic to play the morality card when it's stained with events like Haditha, Mahmudiyah, and Abu Ghraib. I mean, I realize some good was done there by our military. In fact, I'm sure it was significant. Unfortunately, it's always the bad apples that leave a sour taste in my mouth. I'm the guy who remembers them.

    The War Profiteers - Iraq: BBC Documentary on Mahmudiya Massacre - August 7th, 2006
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 10-07-14 at 01:07 AM.
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