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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Changing the subject won't make your argument any less wrong. You've gone from, "the Viet Cong forced us to surrender", to, "it wasn't worth it". Stop trying to use partisan hackery as historical fact.
    I never said the Viet Cong forced us to surrender. I said we walked away, letting them win by default. You were the one who injected the words "victory" and "defeat" into the discussion, so I'm just asking you to explain how we were victorious, notwithstanding the 58,272 names on the Vietnam Memorial.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    My argument is dead on....
    You mean your argument is dead on arrival--literally.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You are asking the wrong question. It wasnt a question of 'winning' Vietnam, it was question of opposing the continued expansion of communism. The goal was not to seize South Vietnam (or for that matter to defeat North Vietnam) but rather to prevent it from falling under communist rule similar to the goal in Korea, Afghanistan, etc).
    Right. And we didn't exactly achieve our goal, did we? In fact, not only did we not achieve our goal, but a lot of people were killed, wounded, or scarred emotionally for life. And for what? That's my question.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    that is called an insurgency.

    guerilla warfare usually involves uniformed combatants who use hit and run tactics.insurgencies are usually non uniformed combatants who hide among the civilian population as cover.

    iraq and later wars are not our first encounter with insurgents,but rather the first time we seen it as the primary opposition.insurgencies need to be countered with counter insurgency or coin strategies.given syria is different from iraq afghanistan al quaeda and the taliban,modifying the coin strategy is necessary.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

  5. #335
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Right. And we didn't exactly achieve our goal, did we? In fact, not only did we not achieve our goal, but a lot of people were killed, wounded, or scarred emotionally for life. And for what? That's my question.
    In case you missed it, the Soviet Union was blocked and eventually dismantled. Vietnam in and of itself was not the end game. Its amazing how myopic people are in their world vision.

    As I said...the problem in Vietnam was not the war or the purpose for the war. The problem was with politicians running a political war. Blame Kennedy. Blame Johnson. Blame the politicians. The military could have destroyed North Vietnam and ended the war relatively easily. Political binders caused those dead wounded and scarred soldiers. A wise man would learn from history as they prepare to engage an enemy like ISIS.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    In case you missed it, the Soviet Union was blocked and eventually dismantled. Vietnam in and of itself was not the end game. Its amazing how myopic people are in their world vision.
    The USSR collapsed almost twenty years after the conclusion of the Vietnam War, and not because we failed to kick the communists out of South Vietnam.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    As I said...the problem in Vietnam was not the war or the purpose for the war. The problem was with politicians running a political war. Blame Kennedy. Blame Johnson. Blame the politicians. The military could have destroyed North Vietnam and ended the war relatively easily. Political binders caused those dead wounded and scarred soldiers. A wise man would learn from history as they prepare to engage an enemy like ISIS.
    I beg to differ. The war was a problem, because we had no compelling national interest there. Apparently Nixon came to that view as well, since he brokered the agreement that allowed us to leave South Vietnam with no troop presence. As far as ISIS goes, what's wrong with letting al-Nusra, the FSA, Assad, Hezbollah, Syrian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds, Iraqi Shiite militias, the Iraqi Army, or Iran fight them? Did you notice that al-Nusra and ISIS are talking again instead of fighting each other since we started bombing them both?

    Al Nusra want to merge with ISIS - creating united army of fanatics* | Daily Mail Online
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  7. #337
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Err... of course it's a static number. Explaining that a militant organizations troop totals will fluctuate depending on casualties, recruitment, and desertion is one of the most obvious things I've ever seen posted. Moreover there is no reason to believe that there is a bottomless pool of fighters available to IS.
    There certianly is not a bottomless pool of fighters, but there saying there are XXX many fighters is also a bad argument because that number, as I have mentioned, is a static number. Saying that means that killing 31,000 fighters will not win against ISIS. Those fighters will be replenished.. Over time, we may actually have to kill 100k plus fighters to win a battle against ISIS. And as we take longer and use less effective means (such as Air Strikes) it will only increase the number of fighters we have to kill. The best way to end this battle is thru a decisive ground offensive supported by air power. That is how you kill fewer people and win. And in the end, is also a much cheaper war.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The USSR collapsed almost twenty years after the conclusion of the Vietnam War, and not because we failed to kick the communists out of South Vietnam.



    I beg to differ. The war was a problem, because we had no compelling national interest there. Apparently Nixon came to that view as well, since he brokered the agreement that allowed us to leave South Vietnam with no troop presence. As far as ISIS goes, what's wrong with letting al-Nusra, the FSA, Assad, Hezbollah, Syrian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds, Iraqi Shiite militias, the Iraqi Army, or Iran fight them? Did you notice that al-Nusra and ISIS are talking again instead of fighting each other since we started bombing them both?

    Al Nusra want to merge with ISIS - creating united army of fanatics* | Daily Mail Online
    The USSR collapsed because every US president had the foresight to fight soviet expansion> Vietnam was just one of those fronts. It was a front not well fought, one that could have and absolutely should have been fought better, but one that needed to be fought.

    You want to continue your myopic world vision, be my guest. Thats why people like you play tic tac toe and world leaders play 3D chess.

    You may have missed it, but ISIS was doing a pretty steady business of butchering women and children. You want to sit back and allow **** like that...be my guest. We made a mistake ignoring the massacre in Rwanda and look at the cost. I suppose its easy for people to say "its not our problem". Think about how that plays out when your house is on fire or someone you love is being assaulted and others stand around saying meh...**** it...not my problem. Since Obama engaged ISIS ISIS is now having to deal with drones and air strikes. They are engaged militarily. Its a good start.

  9. #339
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    There certianly is not a bottomless pool of fighters, but there saying there are XXX many fighters is also a bad argument because that number, as I have mentioned, is a static number. Saying that means that killing 31,000 fighters will not win against ISIS. Those fighters will be replenished.. Over time, we may actually have to kill 100k plus fighters to win a battle against ISIS. And as we take longer and use less effective means (such as Air Strikes) it will only increase the number of fighters we have to kill. The best way to end this battle is thru a decisive ground offensive supported by air power. That is how you kill fewer people and win. And in the end, is also a much cheaper war.
    Likewise we don't have to kill every single one of them to "win", many will just chose to give it up and go home.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ...Thats why people like you play tic tac toe and world leaders play 3D chess. ...
    Why is it that those on the far right have this urge to insult others? Does it make you feel macho? Do you really think that you add anything to your argument or to the discussion by tossing in a few insults?

    And just wondering, but what is the cost to the US by not going into Rwanda? Best I know it hasn't cost me a dime. Rwanda isn't economically important to the US. I don't drink their tea or coffee, and they produce little else.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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