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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I am really not sure what we expect to accomplish by destroying several hundred $'s worth of military equipment and an easily replaceable terrorist with a bomb or missile that costs millions will accomplish. The current approach to ISIS I believe is a sign among a long list of signs that we have not had an intelligent military leader since WW2.
    Not all of their fighters are easily repalcable.

    ISIS is really a coalition:
    A. Hard core life long and total jihaders
    B. Sunni militia groups tired with Iraqs Shia govt.

    The "B"s, though willing to chase retreating Shia units, and willing to commit small scale war crimes, probably did not sign on to fighting US precision airstrikes and may have second thoughts about committing the large scale atrocities that the "A"s have made group policy.

    Thus, hopefully, US strikes may cause the "B"s to leave.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Not all of their fighters are easily repalcable.

    ISIS is really a coalition:
    A. Hard core life long and total jihaders
    B. Sunni militia groups tired with Iraqs Shia govt.

    The "B"s, though willing to chase retreating Shia units, and willing to commit small scale war crimes, probably did not sign on to fighting US precision airstrikes and may have second thoughts about committing the large scale atrocities that the "A"s have made group policy.

    Thus, hopefully, US strikes may cause the "B"s to leave.
    There are not enough bombs and missiles in US inventory to kill everyone in ISIS. And no matter how many bombs and missiles are dropped, there will always be a contigent of similar thinking minds around to influence others. In the absence of any type of constant and vigilant force stifling such a thing, it will always exist. Which is why missiles and bombs will never get rid of it. The answer will only come from a government powerful enough to destroy it within its boarders. Few of those exists. Even China has problems with internal extreamism, but they do manage to quell it. That is why the only way this will ever stop, is if China, Russia, the US or one of the other giant powers completely occupy it, build it up and secure it, give its people freedom and wealth, that this will go away.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Wrong? No, they're not wrong. They're estimates, because no one really knows exactly how many tens of millions of combatants were killed. I only mentioned them to make a point, which you either disingenuously chose to ignore or which your military-bearing mind simply couldn't process. Once again, sometimes the cost to "win" a war is so high that it is not worth the price. In an attempt to get this thread back on track, I'm wondering what price Americans are willing to pay to stop ISIS. My guess is the intelligentsia who are in positions of influence in this country (especially those on the political right) will favor intervention at any price, because with our all-volunteer military they don't have to worry about sending their kids into harms way. The people who live in superzips as a class simply don't join the military. They attend Ivy League colleges, then start businesses so they can make lots of money or go into government where they hold positions of influence over policy. They do, however, "support our troops" and even hold a benefit now and then for the poor saps who come home missing limbs or pieces of their brains. But they'd be horrified if their own sons decided to join the Marines. A military stint in most cases is for poor and middle class people who are looking to get signing bonuses and the GI Bill. Does that sound a bit cynical? Good. It's supposed to.
    I don't think American's are intelligent enough to know enough about geopolitics and the Middle East to know if it is or is not worth the price to begin with. And my answer to your question, is that it is worth the price. And if we don't pay it now, as we have seen time and time again, we will pay for it later.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  4. #294
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I don't think American's are intelligent enough to know enough about geopolitics and the Middle East to know if it is or is not worth the price to begin with. And my answer to your question, is that it is worth the price. And if we don't pay it now, as we have seen time and time again, we will pay for it later.
    History proves that the public has its limits. We saw that with Vietnam and again during the Iranian Hostage Crisis, which helped to tank Jimmy Carter's presidency. And most of them do know how to count, so if the bodies start piling up I'd expect their attention to focus more on that than the long-term threat. Finally, an argument can be made that we're paying the price now for our interventionist policies.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Wrong? No, they're not wrong. They're estimates, because no one really knows exactly how many tens of millions of combatants were killed. I only mentioned them to make a point, which you either disingenuously chose to ignore or which your military-bearing mind simply couldn't process. Once again, sometimes the cost to "win" a war is so high that it is not worth the price. In an attempt to get this thread back on track, I'm wondering what price Americans are willing to pay to stop ISIS. My guess is the intelligentsia who are in positions of influence in this country (especially those on the political right) will favor intervention at any price, because with our all-volunteer military they don't have to worry about sending their kids into harms way. The people who live in superzips as a class simply don't join the military. They attend Ivy League colleges, then start businesses so they can make lots of money or go into government where they hold positions of influence over policy. They do, however, "support our troops" and even hold a benefit now and then for the poor saps who come home missing limbs or pieces of their brains. But they'd be horrified if their own sons decided to join the Marines. A military stint in most cases is for poor and middle class people who are looking to get signing bonuses and the GI Bill. Does that sound a bit cynical? Good. It's supposed to.
    Yes, you're nunbers are wrong. There weren't 12 million allied KIA's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    History proves that the public has its limits.
    Especially Liberals. Hell, I've run across Liberals who think Joe McCarthy chaired the HUAC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, you're nunbers are wrong. There weren't 12 million allied KIA's.
    In my haste I looked at the wrong column, so I stand corrected. According to Wikipedia, the Entente Powers lost 4,866,317 to 6,349,352 military deaths from all causes. The Central Powers suffered 3,386,200 to 4,390,544. I imagine these numbers will vary somewhat depending on the source. These facts don't change my conclusion: the so-called victory by the Entente side was a Pyrrhic one.

    World War I casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    Sounds familiar...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Especially Liberals. Hell, I've run across Liberals who think Joe McCarthy chaired the HUAC.
    I'm curious to know how many neocons who banged the drums for us to invade Iraq (and said the war would be "free" because we'd use Iraqi oil revenues to pay for it) sent their sons or daughters to fight there. My guess is not many.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I'm curious to know how many neocons who banged the drums for us to invade Iraq (and said the war would be "free" because we'd use Iraqi oil revenues to pay for it) sent their sons or daughters to fight there. My guess is not many.
    Your argument keeps getting weaker...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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