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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    I remember the last guy in that area who claimed his side was winning. His name was Baghdad Bob. LOL.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We were winning the war. We won the Tet Offensive. The ARVN won the Easter Offensive in 1972. From January 1968 to April 1972, the North lost 400,000 troops. A coujtry the size of North Vietnam can't sustain those losses.
    Yeah, but in the end the country decided that tens of thousands of dead GIs and Marines with no end in sight was too high a cost. It wanted the war over and the POWs home. So Nixon negotiated an end to it.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Yeah, but in the end the country decided that tens of thousands of dead GIs and Marines with no end in sight was too high a cost. It wanted the war over and the POWs home. So Nixon negotiated an end to it.
    The North Vietnamese didn't sign the treaty, because they were winning. They knew the only way to avoid destruction, was to get The United States out of the picture.

    Either way, none of that amounts to the defeat of American forces in the field.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Germans violated the Treaty of Versailles...did The Allies lose WW1?
    The Entente Powers lost about 12 million men while the Central Powers only lost about 8 million, give or take a few hundred thousand. So I guess we can say with confidence that the Entente (Allied) Powers were the big winners, right? Or am I missing something?
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The Entente Powers lost about 12 million men while the Central Powers only lost about 8 million, give or take a few hundred thousand. So I guess we can say with confidence that the Entente (Allied) Powers were the big winners, right? Or am I missing something?
    I don't know where you got those numbers from, nor what your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    His point appears to be that you are defending the indefensible again. Consistency is only good when you win.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't know where you got those numbers from, nor what your point is.
    I just got them off of Wiki, but does it really matter? Let's say the Entente Powers "only" lost 10 million men and the Central Powers 6 million. My point is the so-called victory of the Entente Powers was a Pyrrhic one.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    His point appears to be that you are defending the indefensible again. Consistency is only good when you win.
    He got his numbers wrong, so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He got his numbers wrong, so...
    Wrong? No, they're not wrong. They're estimates, because no one really knows exactly how many tens of millions of combatants were killed. I only mentioned them to make a point, which you either disingenuously chose to ignore or which your military-bearing mind simply couldn't process. Once again, sometimes the cost to "win" a war is so high that it is not worth the price. In an attempt to get this thread back on track, I'm wondering what price Americans are willing to pay to stop ISIS. My guess is the intelligentsia who are in positions of influence in this country (especially those on the political right) will favor intervention at any price, because with our all-volunteer military they don't have to worry about sending their kids into harms way. The people who live in superzips as a class simply don't join the military. They attend Ivy League colleges, then start businesses so they can make lots of money or go into government where they hold positions of influence over policy. They do, however, "support our troops" and even hold a benefit now and then for the poor saps who come home missing limbs or pieces of their brains. But they'd be horrified if their own sons decided to join the Marines. A military stint in most cases is for poor and middle class people who are looking to get signing bonuses and the GI Bill. Does that sound a bit cynical? Good. It's supposed to.
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 10-04-14 at 11:40 AM.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    I am really not sure what we expect to accomplish by destroying several hundred $'s worth of military equipment and an easily replaceable terrorist with a bomb or missile that costs millions will accomplish. The current approach to ISIS I believe is a sign among a long list of signs that we have not had an intelligent military leader since WW2.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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