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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The US didn't surrender Saigon.

    Again, at what point did the NVA, by force of arms defeat the US army?
    They didn't have to. It was like a game of Capture the Flag in which one side just says "I don't want to play anymore" and leaves the game. The North won when it entered Saigon and raised its flag after we'd made a hasty retreat from the rooftop of our embassy.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, ok. I guess that's why ISIS had to invade Iraq.
    What are you talking about?? I already proved to you that they came out of Iraq. They found a handy power vacuum in Syria and recruits, nice weaponry supplied to the insurgents from the west and made an overt advance on Iraqi territories and they don't intend to stop there. Look apdst, your going to defend George Bush long after he's dead and gone I'm sure. But it won't help the mess he created one bit.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What are you talking about?? I already proved to you that they came out of Iraq. They found a handy power vacuum in Syria and recruits, nice weaponry supplied to the insurgents from the west and made an overt advance on Iraqi territories and they don't intend to stop there. Look apdst, your going to defend George Bush long after he's dead and gone I'm sure. But it won't help the mess he created one bit.
    What mess???Obama in 2011: ‘We’re Leaving Behind A Stable And Self-Reliant Iraq’

    Watch Joe Biden Call Iraq "One of the Great Achievements of This Administration" | The Daily Caller

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What are you talking about?? I already proved to you that they came out of Iraq. They found a handy power vacuum in Syria and recruits, nice weaponry supplied to the insurgents from the west and made an overt advance on Iraqi territories and they don't intend to stop there. Look apdst, your going to defend George Bush long after he's dead and gone I'm sure. But it won't help the mess he created one bit.
    No, they came out of Syria, to invade Iraq.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    They didn't have to. It was like a game of Capture the Flag in which one side just says "I don't want to play anymore" and leaves the game. The North won when it entered Saigon and raised its flag after we'd made a hasty retreat from the rooftop of our embassy.
    US forces didn't retreat from Vietnam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Certainly not militarily, but the Tet Offensive was still a strategic victory for the North. Although we killed a lot of VC, they killed enough of us that the war became front and center during the 1968 presidential election, with Johnson forced to withdraw from seeking a second term while Nixon promised to end the war by bringing home "peace with honor." Subsequently, we did in Vietnam what we tried to do in Iraq (with the same pitiful result): a gradual draw-down of U.S. force strength coupled with the simultaneous training and support of indigenous forces. Remember "Vietnamization"? After Tet the war became not so much about "How do we win?" but "How do we get out?"

    So if the original goal in sending troops to Vietnam was to keep South Vietnam from becoming a communist domino I'd say we lost.

    Nixon's peace with honor - The Vietnam War and Its Impact
    LOL...Tet was a massive debacle and a crushing defeat for The North. As I pointed out earlier, the VC was destroyed during the Tet Offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    US forces didn't retreat from Vietnam.
    No, they just left, letting the communists win by default. Your stance reminds me of the old Stalinist members of the Russian military who said they didn't lose in Afghanistan. It was their feckless leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, who withdrew Soviet forces with his tail between his legs, which allowed the Taliban to assume control of the country once the dust had settled..
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, they came out of Syria, to invade Iraq.
    You've been proven wrong on that. They began in Iraq at a time mind you when there were no militant Islamic groups operating in Syria, before there ever was any Syrian protests, while junior was still struggling in Iraq.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    LOL...Tet was a massive debacle and a crushing defeat for The North. As I pointed out earlier, the VC was destroyed during the Tet Offensive.
    They were certainly diminished to the point of little more then menacing for the next few years. The TO of 1968 was a battle that the US won, but it was bloody and there were huge losses. After assuring Americans that the war would be won very soon, the TO was a big set back for Johnson, he withdrew his candidacy and his Vice President ran instead. The GOP threw out Nixon who campaigned on "peace with honor" (read: exit strategy) and he won the election, but he too might win a battle, but couldn't win the war. The NAV launched another massive attack in the middle of 72, while they were repelled again, again US losses were heavy and Americans were at the end of their rope, seeing that after years, and two administrations, this "conflict" couldn't be won, and they demanded, no, DEMANDED we get out. In the end, the objective of keeping south Vietnam an independent non communist state failed and the US came home. Many battles were won, but the war was lost, the objective failed and there was no soldier homecoming as with WW2. In fact it was rough on returning soldiers. So, short of accomplishing the objective, 58K soldiers died for nothing, and of course there was the treasure spent as well.

    This is not unlike today's conflict, the Iraq war and the strength of the Islamic State, which is why they boast. Americans were told Al Qaeda would be a pushover, why a mere two months into it Bush was crowing that Al Qaeda was decimated. Yet there menacing attacks continued and increased in fact, at more then four hundred the year before the "surge". And those attacks, though lessened by the surge continued right on through Bush's final days in office and through our withdrawal. Al Qaeda and its various offshoots lives, are perhaps stronger then ever and menacing a lot more territory now then before US involvement in the region. Again, there was no victory, removing Saddam Hussein hasn't even been a victory, and a majority of Americans now feel that the Iraq war (which includes Saddam's removal) was a mistake so, whether or not the current airstrikes are having a negative affect on the Islamic State will remain to be seen. In the meantime, whether they are, or are not, of course the Islamic State will be declaring that they are not.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    No, they just left, letting the communists win by default. Your stance reminds me of the old Stalinist members of the Russian military who said they didn't lose in Afghanistan. It was their feckless leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, who withdrew Soviet forces with his tail between his legs, which allowed the Taliban to assume control of the country once the dust had settled..
    We left...after we forced The North to sign an armistace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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