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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The bombing isn't in full swing and the targets aren't exactly standing in formation to be bombed. I am sure the strikes are hurting them or at least demoralizing them. A continued air campaign will degrade ISIS ability to take another city and will stall their efforts.
    Correct. The day I believe the propaganda of these militants is the day I believe I should give my bank account number and password to a scammer. Of course their spokesman is saying they have no effect. Would anyone except a partisan hack, that wants to discredit Obama, believe otherwise?
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 09-29-14 at 04:00 PM.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Our military was crafted around the idea of fighting large, formal state forces, not guerrilla warfare.
    Some of our forces train in guerrila warfare, namely, Special Forces. And that training goes all the way back to Vietnam. And we got a lot of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. To say we know nothing about or can adapt to guerilla warfare is not only ignorant but insulting.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Some of our forces train in guerrila warfare, namely, Special Forces. And that training goes all the way back to Vietnam. And we got a lot of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. To say we know nothing about or can adapt to guerilla warfare is not only ignorant but insulting.
    I don't doubt it, but historically speaking, does guerrilla warfare as a tactic generally work well against larger forces with superior technology and weaponry? How well are we doing in Afghanistan, how well did we do in Iraq?

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    And then there is the problem that they aren't camping in the hills-they are embedded amongst the civilians (and in many cases ARE the civilians, though there is a huge number of foreigners as well). So a strike means collateral damage (even more so).

    What to do? Well we could bomb indiscriminately (we wont), we could target and coordinate for the Arab air forces (meaning a limited response), or we could acknowledge that boots on the ground are what needs to happen. That has its own issues-like the fact that ISIS is very good at moving in an out of areas, and the Syrian border complicates this.

    Obama never planned to fight this conflict, and certainly does not want to. He saw polls and thinks a little show will help him retain the senate. It wont work because a substantive response is whats required and Obama wants to pretend the Iraq war is over-its not-its just entering a new stage that will get worse the longer he ignores it.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I don't doubt it, but historically speaking, does guerrilla warfare as a tactic generally work well against larger forces with superior technology and weaponry? How well are we doing in Afghanistan, how well did we do in Iraq?
    Our COIN (counter insurgency) tactics are superb and amongst the best in the world, but not if we dont have the resolve to use them, and not if we dont have at least general order in the country.

    Regardless of how this turns out, we will need to keep a limited military presence there for decades.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Our COIN (counter insurgency) tactics are superb and amongst the best in the world, but not if we dont have the resolve to use them, and not if we dont have at least general order in the country.

    Regardless of how this turns out, we will need to keep a limited military presence there for decades.
    In what ways are our anti-guerrilla tactics superior to, say, the Soviets in Afghanistan? Genuinely curious.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    In what ways are our anti-guerrilla tactics superior to, say, the Soviets in Afghanistan? Genuinely curious.
    Different tactics, we deploy and stay in "enemy" territory, employ drones (killed AQ's entire leadership several times over), and focus on protecting and building relationships with the civilian population. All are quite different from Soviet techniques.

    http://strategicstudiesinstitute.arm...mn/gentile.pdf

    Heres the actual current COIN manual
    http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf

    Note that as effective as these are, they still wont work if our POTUS does not have the resolve, and then announces withdrawal dates (which is just an invitation for terror groups to hunker down until we pull out-we are currently pulling our combat troops out of Afghanistan (by the end of the year all will be out) and AQ and the taliban are already threatening the locals with the new "justice" they will employ when we do.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Tameamea View Post
    If only... The thing is that the civilians are dying because of the attacks. I mean, it's war and there is always collateral damage. But in the context of actually not getting even close to terrorists it all looks too cruel and violent for a democratic state.
    Not nearly as violent as WW2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    Really, what are you expecting them to come out and say? "Holy Crap, those things were effective, please stop!"

    In terms of defining how successful the strikes were, what ISIS is claiming publicly would be WAY down at the bottom of my list.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    In what ways are our anti-guerrilla tactics superior to, say, the Soviets in Afghanistan? Genuinely curious.
    It was American tactics and weaponry that caused the Soviets to retreat from Afghanistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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