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Thread: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

  1. #111
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    If a degree of democracy is the same thing as mob rule, then I'm all for mob rule. At least it's an organized mob following rules and proceedures. I find that preferable to any alternative.
    Policy buy polls is not organized, nor according to any principles of legislating promoted by our founders.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We have a republican form of government, polls don't decide policy. What people should do is vote out representatives that don't listen to their constituents; if they don't like policy.
    Actually, voters should go one step further. They should tell their representative, what they expect them to do.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Can you think of a scenario when the enemy wouldn't suspect that we are going to start bombing them? Or when they wouldn't try to hide their command and control and fortify their positions?

    I guess maybe if we started bombing Canada today, they wouldn't suspect it.

    It was conservatives who started beating the drums of war first, not Obama. It's also possible, that if conservatives are right about the world thinking that Obama is so weak, that they didn't expect it. We dunno.
    Remember way back when. Obama was asked for his ISIS strategy and he had none. He spent weeks after that mumbling and fumbling about not doing anything until he got the world on his side. ISIS had plenty of time to see what was coming and take appropriate action. Obama missed his window of opportunity big time. Before the question of his policy was even asked he should have started the bombing. At that point there would have been no question what his policy was and ISIS would have been caught off guard and would have been decimated.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I agree. I can't imagine why most of us think that we know more about warfare than the people who study and live it for a living.

    I've tried to put myself in the position of boots on the ground, fighting an enemy who we can't tell from the locals. About the only thing we could do is to stand around and wait until we are being shot at and then shoot back. Seems to me that would put US troops at a huge disadvantage over ISIS. It wouldn't be so hard for ISIS to determine who the American troops are.

    We would be fighting in a situation where EVERYONE is an enemy to some extent or another, and it would probably be a mistake to believe that they Syrian and Iraqi people (in general) don't see the US as being an enemy also.

    We've been that rout before, and it didn't work out well.

    I'm not saying that we don't need boots on the ground to win, but we would be better off if those boots were the people who had more skin in the game than we do - the Iraqi and Syrian people.
    I think you are probably very close to spot on. We do not know the lay of the ground, die situation in the village, we don't have the stomach to do, what it would take to win the peace after the combat is done. Also, it might be a global public good to eliminate ISIS, but the main beneficiaries are in the neighborhood not us. So the costs both soft and hard should be carried by them. The US should help commensurate with the skin we do have in it. But Europe and the Arab League should be in the front.

  5. #115
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    .....
    I guess maybe if we started bombing Canada today, they wouldn't suspect it.
    ...
    Now that is something he would be remembered for.

  6. #116
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/...terviews/index.

    Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

    As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

    In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.
    I would never take an enemy's word at face value. Of course they want to appear to be stronger than "the great satan." I don't know if they are effective or not. I don't think JUST air strikes are going to work, I don't think they hurt our cause either. I'm hoping our military convinces Obama that it is necessary to enter into a ground war and prolonged occupation. I don't like that it is necessary, but it is necessary.
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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    Remember way back when. Obama was asked for his ISIS strategy and he had none. He spent weeks after that mumbling and fumbling about not doing anything until he got the world on his side. ISIS had plenty of time to see what was coming and take appropriate action. Obama missed his window of opportunity big time. Before the question of his policy was even asked he should have started the bombing. At that point there would have been no question what his policy was and ISIS would have been caught off guard and would have been decimated.
    I am quite happy he did not go into Syria, which would have been necessary to stop ISIS from growing into the monster it has become. Syria was a problem mainly for the neighborhood (Arab League, Turkey, EU). They did nothing but blabber and now the dangers have grown. Even here in Germany the people are beginning to understand, that they can no longer free ride American made security. They are even beginning to appreciate that the US is important for their safety, has more institutional intelligence than anyone here and does a better job than they can. Syria and Ukraine have brought that home to quite a few people.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    For those 'strictly speaking' types (or perhaps the better descriptor is 'literal') it can be said that they MAY have actually 'decimated' ISIS. From a literal perspective...ISIS would view decimation as a 'win'.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Americans don't want boots on the ground.

    A majority of Americans -- 60 percent -- told a poll conducted for CNN they don’t want ground troops to be part of the combat operation against ISIS while 38 percent said they favor ground troops and 2 percent had no opinion.

    US Ground Troops ISIS Poll: Americans Don't Want Boots On The Ground, Unless Military Does

    Of course we know that boots will eventually be on the ground, and we'll likely have another long conflict costly in blood and treasure, ending with a declaration of "decimation" and the only real beneficiaries will be the defense contractors big business.
    Polls should not be a substitute for leadership. Most people expect the government and all it's appropriate bureaucracies to have greater access to information than those waiting in a bus line-up. If the public has access to all the information the government possesses then perhaps they may be the answer and the President can then respond only to public opinion polls.

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    Re: ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You're dismissing the will of the people in favor of boots on the ground. Perhaps that's how you'd like to see things work, but that's not the democratic way.
    First, we dont live in a direct democracy, and second, dems in battleground states after years of railing against IRAQ as doves are suddenly hawks. These are actual congressional reps, not me.

    Explain to me the democrat way.

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