• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Afghan president to sign deal Tuesday allowing US troops to stay after 2014


You are giving me a good laugh here today, TDS, so thank you for that. But again, you have an amazing ability to ignore all history that is inconvenient to your myopic view. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Taliban is just a misunderstood group that doesn't want anything more than to re-establish the Emirate of 1996. What was the result of that the first time? And how did that work out for the US? How do you keep that from happening again without US involvement? Rainbow Magic?
 
You are giving me a good laugh here today, TDS, so thank you for that. But again, you have an amazing ability to ignore all history that is inconvenient to your myopic view. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Taliban is just a misunderstood group that doesn't want anything more than to re-establish the Emirate of 1996. What was the result of that the first time? And how did that work out for the US? How do you keep that from happening again without US involvement? Rainbow Magic?
How did it work for the US? Not to good if you mean that Al-Qaeda was there. But you might find this interesting:
"Our people consider al-Qaeda to be a plague that was sent down to us by the heavens. Some even concluded that al-Qaeda are actually the spies of America. Originally, the Taliban were naive and ignorant of politics and welcomed al-Qaeda into their homes. But al-Qaeda abused our hospitality. "
New Statesman | Preview: Michael Semple interviews a senior member of the Taliban


"Contrary to the established perception that they are of one mind, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are not in lockstep. In fact, the Taliban in Afghanistan could be persuaded to renounce the infamous terrorist group led by Osama bin Laden.

According to Alex Strick van Linschoten and Felix Kuehn at New York University’s Center on International Cooperation, the two groups did not get along at times before the September 11 attacks, and they have continued to spar since. Also, in their report, the authors claim that Taliban leaders were not informed by al-Qaeda in advance of the attacks on New York City and Washington, DC. “Bin Laden effectively manipulated the Taliban, using their lack of international experience to advance his own goals…. Significant parts of the senior Taliban leadership, along with rank-and-file commanders, were outraged at bin Laden’s abuse of their hospitality and his blatant disregard for their government.”
U.S. and the World - Surprise! Taliban and Al-Qaeda are Worlds Apart - AllGov - News
 
How much more response do we need? How do you win a war on a tactic that has always been used?

War is also a tactice, both are political tactics. War has always been used.
 
War is also a tactice, both are political tactics. War has always been used.

War is not a tactic. War is a state of armed conflict between at least 2 opposing sides.
 
How did it work for the US? Not to good if you mean that Al-Qaeda was there. But you might find this interesting:
"Our people consider al-Qaeda to be a plague that was sent down to us by the heavens. Some even concluded that al-Qaeda are actually the spies of America. Originally, the Taliban were naive and ignorant of politics and welcomed al-Qaeda into their homes. But al-Qaeda abused our hospitality. "
New Statesman | Preview: Michael Semple interviews a senior member of the Taliban

Yes, TDS, again, you have a penchant for Radical lies. What do you expect the Taliban to say? There goal is to get control of Afghanistan back and return to business as usual. They realize they can't do that through force so they are doing it through lies. It's amazing that you are so easily duped.

Funny enough, you are missing the 800lb gorilla in that article. I ask you: Why does this unnamed "Taliban leader" wish to remain anonymous? I'll be over here in reality when you are ready to answer.


"Contrary to the established perception that they are of one mind, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are not in lockstep. In fact, the Taliban in Afghanistan could be persuaded to renounce the infamous terrorist group led by Osama bin Laden.

According to Alex Strick van Linschoten and Felix Kuehn at New York University’s Center on International Cooperation, the two groups did not get along at times before the September 11 attacks, and they have continued to spar since. Also, in their report, the authors claim that Taliban leaders were not informed by al-Qaeda in advance of the attacks on New York City and Washington, DC. “Bin Laden effectively manipulated the Taliban, using their lack of international experience to advance his own goals…. Significant parts of the senior Taliban leadership, along with rank-and-file commanders, were outraged at bin Laden’s abuse of their hospitality and his blatant disregard for their government.”
U.S. and the World - Surprise! Taliban and Al-Qaeda are Worlds Apart - AllGov - News

And again, you are willing to accept the excuses by a group that allowed Al Qaeda to operate openly within their own government for years while they attacked and murdered Americans because now that they can't win back Afghanistan they are ready to start telling lies so that idiots will let them back in. This too is the history of the world. Once properly beaten the enemy that is left is always ready to point at their dead comrades and claim it was all their fault.

You are a sucker for their lies, TDS, plain and simple.
 
Last edited:
Yes, TDS, again, you have a penchant for Radical lies. What do you expect the Taliban to say? There goal is to get control of Afghanistan back and return to business as usual. They realize they can't do that through force so they are doing it through lies. It's amazing that you are so easily duped.
Of course. Everything that doesnt fit your narrative is a "lie".


Funny enough, you are missing the 800lb gorilla in that article. I ask you: Why does this unnamed "Taliban leader" wish to remain anonymous? I'll be over here in reality when you are ready to answer.
The answer to your question is in the 2nd sentence of the article: " The identity of his interviewee is protected, to allow him to speak freely about the upper echelons of the movement, but Semple has verified his seniority and cross-checked his account."



And again, you are willing to accept the excuses by a group that allowed Al Qaeda to operate opening within their own government for years while the attacked and murdered Americans because now that they can't win back Afghanistan they are ready to start telling lies so that idiots will let them back in. This too is the history of the world. Once properly beaten the enemy that is left is always ready to point at their dead comrades and claim it was all their fault.

You are a sucker for their lies, TDS, plain and simple.
Again. Of course, everything that doesnt fit your narrative is a "lie".
 
Of course. Everything that doesnt fit your narrative is a "lie".

No, everything that runs contrary to their history and has clear ulterior motivations is an obvious lie.

The answer to your question is in the 2nd sentence of the article: " The identity of his interviewee is protected, to allow him to speak freely about the upper echelons of the movement, but Semple has verified his seniority and cross-checked his account."

Again, WHY is he speaking anonymously? What happens to him if his name is made public?

What happens to Emirate Mk II when their "Senior Leadership" is already crapping their pants about Al Qaeda reprisals for saying they don't like Al Qaeda?

More importantly, if they are really just the misunderstood victims in all of this then why did they not welcome US troops as liberators in 2002 rather than TAKE UP ARMS WITH AL QAEDA FOR 12 F***ING YEARS!?

Also, if they are just misunderstood peaceniks then why are they still killing US troops in Afghanistan?

Seriously, how blind does one have to be to accept this bullS*** from a "Senior Taliban Leader" as the honest truth?

Again. Of course, everything that doesnt fit your narrative is a "lie".

Nope. These lies are obvious because they don't mesh with years of known collaboration with Al Qaeda and have an obvious motivation.
 
Last edited:
Then we are back at the original point.....incompetence in the waging of that war. 13 years, an array of allies and drone strikes in the thousands and the enemy is "not beaten down enough"...

It simply is not working.

But back to the reference to WW2, Japan and Germany suffered more destruction and loss of life than Iraq and Afghanistan has. In part, because of more precise weapons used in the past 13 years and a more restrictive rules of engagement.
 
No, everything that runs contrary to their history and has clear ulterior motivations is an obvious lie.
:roll: Except none of this runs contrary to history...

Again, WHY is he speaking anonymously? What happens to him if his name is made public?
"to allow him to speak freely about the upper echelons of the movement".
Because he is talking about sensitive information.

More importantly, if they are really just the misunderstood victims in all of this then why did they not welcome US troops as liberators in 2002 rather than TAKE UP ARMS WITH AL QAEDA FOR 12 F***ING YEARS!?
No one else is calling them "misunderstood victims" except you.. .


Also, if they are just misunderstood peaceniks then why are they still killing US troops in Afghanistan?
Uhhh in his own words: "The Taliban are fighting to expel the occupiers and to enforce shariat... "

Seriously, how blind does one have to be to accept this bullS*** from a "Senior Taliban Leader" as the honest truth?
Then what is the "honest truth"?


Nope. These lies are obvious because they don't mesh with years of known collaboration with Al Qaeda and have an obvious motivation.
:doh You notice how no one is saying that Al-Qaeda was allowed to stay in Afghanistan by the Taliban....
 
:roll: Except none of this runs contrary to history...

Of course it does. It just happens to be the history you ignore.


"to allow him to speak freely about the upper echelons of the movement".
Because he is talking about sensitive information.

No, it's because his head will be separated from his shoulders.


No one else is calling them "misunderstood victims" except you.. .

YOu are trying to paint them as victims of Al Qaeda while ignoring the long history of Taliban working WITH Al Qaeda.


Uhhh in his own words: "The Taliban are fighting to expel the occupiers and to enforce shariat... "

You are trying unsuccessfully to paint the Taliban as victims of Al Qaeda yet instead of working with the US to expel Al Qaeda THEY TOOK UP ARMS WITH AL QAEDA. You so conveniently ignore that after 9/11 the US first asked the Taliban to turn over Al Qaeda leadership to the US and the Taliban refused. You can't sweep this under the rug, TDS, no matter how inconvenient reality is to your ignorant position.


Then what is the "honest truth"?

That the Taliban want the people of Afghanistan under their boot heel again and will lie to the willfully ignorant dopes to get what they want.


You notice how no one is saying that Al-Qaeda was allowed to stay in Afghanistan by the Taliban....

Of course they were! They collaborated and gave safe harbor to Al Qaeda for YEARS before 9/11, and through numerous Al Qaeda attacks on the US. Criminey, read a book. And after 9/11 when offered the option of turning over Al Qaeda leadership to the US they decided to take up arms with Al Qaeda instead.

But yeah, the silly interview you posted with a "Top Taliban Official" about how they really hated the Taliban even though they did precisely jacks*** to expel them is sooooooo compelling. :roll:
 
I think its common sense. IF the US gets out of the war, they no longer are involved in the conflict, the war is over for the US.

They have already tried to attack us and wont stop. The solution-expose them to large amounts of rapidly expanding gasses and shrapnel.
 
I disagree. "enough death, misery, and pain til the the enemy knows it is too much to continue to wage." ends up being slaughter in the fog of war. It was tried one and off again in Korea and Vietnam. Since WWII wars have become more strategic, surgical strikes etc. But you have to have a starting point, what is the objective beyond scorched earth?

As with Afghanistan, and now Iraq there is no strategic objective, no way to tell success from failure other than the "daily body count" of Vietnam.

There has to be a way to get these Arab countries to deal with what they are breeding in their own back yards.
 
There has to be a way to get these Arab countries to deal with what they are breeding in their own back yards.


Sometimes the required action in critical situations is nothing. As a middle manager, one realizes that continued super-human effort, whether working more or bombing more cannot be sustained. The only course of action is to let the system fail. Soon, people, management or government, realize the cost in financial and human terms and make changes.

I have never understood Obama's rush to appease the Arab world while arming arming rebels and drone bombing ; the apology was like saying "I'm sorry" while kicking a guy in the nuts a second time. Certainly those seeing themselves as horribly wronged by the US laughed out loud and signed up some new recruits. I suspect he thought there were recognizable "sides" and that he was on one of them because he said so. I suspect once the Muslim world realizes superman isn't coming this time they will begin to sort out their own differences in their way, medieval as hell, but it will be a solution.

This proxy war and wars by other names isn't working.
 
Back
Top Bottom