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Thread: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

  1. #311
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Maybe that's what some of those cops were thinking.

    But what effect did it have in Ferguson where most of the residents are Black and almost all of the cops are White? Those guys are tone deaf.

    People doing things like that will never bring peace to Ferguson.
    If the situation were reversed and this was about one black person committing a questionable act and others showing him or her support, the supporters would not be asked to be tone deaf. And lets be honest...since the incident became public one side has been steadily clamoring for violent retribution on an entire community without any question as to whether or not the officer is actually guilty of a crime. Seems to me there would be a lot less a need for tone deaf law enforcement officers if there werent so many people clamoring for the destruction of an entire community based on a cause.

    Let the now 2nd grand jury have the case. See if there is cause for a trial. If so, let there be a trial. If found innocent, then celebrate that the justice system worked. If found guilty...same thing. Until then...

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You start off ok then you swerve right into bigotry. Sure...if it was your kid I'm sure you might have your feelers hurt. But then you jump to 'your community' and immediately you have made it a racial incident. Does your 'community' then have to personally own all the violent crime and **** perpetrated by certain members of your community? Is your community condemned and subject to prejudgement?
    I think you're searching for something that isn't there. The "bigotry" comes out of nowhere, and I have no idea what your problem is with using the term 'community.' Is there no such thing in America, or it just doesn't apply to the people of Ferguson?

    Bottom line is we just disagree on this.

    I'll just sort of end it with this. It's clear that most conservatives don't have any clue what the actual complaints are by the protesters, or dismiss them as trivial whining. A lot of it comes down to many of the small towns in the county, including Ferguson, funding their little fiefdom police departments and their tiny little towns with petty traffic stops and levying fines that are quite burdensome on the poor, which includes lots of the area black population. So instead of the police being seen as peace keepers, they're looked at by the locals as a bunch of people paid to harass the population with quotas on traffic stops and tickets sufficient to pay the bills. That's how the towns are funded - huge shares of their budget from traffic fines. You ought to see the stats on stops per capita there, versus other areas of the state - sometimes 10 times the normal rate.

    The point is the system sets the police against the population, or that's how the 'community' (not sure what word you'd prefer) sees it, instead of with them. And the fact is almost all the police are white, the prosecutors white, the judges white, the town leadership white, and the populations mostly black. Maybe it's not racial at all - perhaps poor is the relevant demographic description, and it just happens to overlap considerably with black. But the point is there's a lot going on in the background other than the one shooting.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I think you're searching for something that isn't there. The "bigotry" comes out of nowhere, and I have no idea what your problem is with using the term 'community.' Is there no such thing in America, or it just doesn't apply to the people of Ferguson?

    Bottom line is we just disagree on this.

    I'll just sort of end it with this. It's clear that most conservatives don't have any clue what the actual complaints are by the protesters, or dismiss them as trivial whining. A lot of it comes down to many of the small towns in the county, including Ferguson, funding their little fiefdom police departments and their tiny little towns with petty traffic stops and levying fines that are quite burdensome on the poor, which includes lots of the area black population. So instead of the police being seen as peace keepers, they're looked at by the locals as a bunch of people paid to harass the population with quotas on traffic stops and tickets sufficient to pay the bills. That's how the towns are funded - huge shares of their budget from traffic fines. You ought to see the stats on stops per capita there, versus other areas of the state - sometimes 10 times the normal rate.

    The point is the system sets the police against the population, or that's how the 'community' (not sure what word you'd prefer) sees it, instead of with them. And the fact is almost all the police are white, the prosecutors white, the judges white, the town leadership white, and the populations mostly black. Maybe it's not racial at all - perhaps poor is the relevant demographic description, and it just happens to overlap considerably with black. But the point is there's a lot going on in the background other than the one shooting.
    A 'community' was pillaged, riots occurred, businesses were lost. Race baiting charlatans rode into town and squeezed a few more drops out of the 'community'. The 'community' slaughters members of 'the community' on the daily and people like you dont give a ****. Now, there was an incident involving ONE ember of the community and one cop, a member of the community who minutes before the incident manhandled a store owner and in an incident where there are AT LEAST two sides to the story if not more. Tell you what...if you actually give half a **** about the 'community' you would have been there long before this incident promoting positive change WITHIN the community. You would get into that community AFTERWARD.

    You and others like you rush to offer this pretense of concern and care for the 'community' and get all twisted when cops offer support for their 'community'. Funny how that works.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    A 'community' was pillaged, riots occurred, businesses were lost. Race baiting charlatans rode into town and squeezed a few more drops out of the 'community'. The 'community' slaughters members of 'the community' on the daily and people like you dont give a ****. Now, there was an incident involving ONE ember of the community and one cop, a member of the community who minutes before the incident manhandled a store owner and in an incident where there are AT LEAST two sides to the story if not more. Tell you what...if you actually give half a **** about the 'community' you would have been there long before this incident promoting positive change WITHIN the community. You would get into that community AFTERWARD.

    You and others like you rush to offer this pretense of concern and care for the 'community' and get all twisted when cops offer support for their 'community'. Funny how that works.
    I have no idea where that hostility came from. It sure as hell wasn't anything I said about or to you. It was late, maybe you were drinking...

    You're not there, so I guess you don't give a **** and don't pretend to give a ****? Then why are you discussing this. What have YOU personally done to make life better for the cops in Ferguson except the same damn thing I'm doing here? Have you visited with the officers? Been to St. Louis County in the last few weeks? Have you donated your time or money to the police departments in St. Louis County? I think you're throwing bricks in a glass house.

    Not that I give a damn what you think, but I keep busy volunteering in my own f***ing community doing what I can. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean as human and American, I must bow out of all discussions about every other city or town in the U.S. If we used that standard, this place would need to shut down, and you'd have a lot fewer posts than nearly 30,000.

    BTW, and I'll end my participation here - I can only assume you are trying to miss the whole ****ing point. I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting. I've had maybe 30 posts on here and on not ONE of them can you find me condemning Wilson. I have no idea what happened that day. But neither does anyone else. I just think any person not a complete idiot could grasp that the bracelets on the job, in uniform, in Ferguson, while working protests is stupid, so f'ing stupid it's unbelievable anyone could actually think this was anything but the dumbest idea for something a cop could wear possible.

    Besides, if the best they can f***ing do to support Darren Wilson is put on a damn rubber bracelet, Wilson's got a worthless bunch of allies.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I have no idea where that hostility came from. It sure as hell wasn't anything I said about or to you. It was late, maybe you were drinking...

    You're not there, so I guess you don't give a **** and don't pretend to give a ****? Then why are you discussing this. What have YOU personally done to make life better for the cops in Ferguson except the same damn thing I'm doing here? Have you visited with the officers? Been to St. Louis County in the last few weeks? Have you donated your time or money to the police departments in St. Louis County? I think you're throwing bricks in a glass house.

    Not that I give a damn what you think, but I keep busy volunteering in my own f***ing community doing what I can. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean as human and American, I must bow out of all discussions about every other city or town in the U.S. If we used that standard, this place would need to shut down, and you'd have a lot fewer posts than nearly 30,000.

    BTW, and I'll end my participation here - I can only assume you are trying to miss the whole ****ing point. I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting. I've had maybe 30 posts on here and on not ONE of them can you find me condemning Wilson. I have no idea what happened that day. But neither does anyone else. I just think any person not a complete idiot could grasp that the bracelets on the job, in uniform, in Ferguson, while working protests is stupid, so f'ing stupid it's unbelievable anyone could actually think this was anything but the dumbest idea for something a cop could wear possible.

    Besides, if the best they can f***ing do to support Darren Wilson is put on a damn rubber bracelet, Wilson's got a worthless bunch of allies.
    No hostility...just statement of fact. I get sometimes that stings a little bit. And how do you know thats 'all' they are doing to support him. For that matter...thats actually a HELL of an effective way to support him. They willingly open themselves up to scorn and hatred from people like yourself to publicly declare they believe in a fellow officer. They dare to actually support their 'community'. How dare they.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No hostility...just statement of fact. I get sometimes that stings a little bit. And how do you know thats 'all' they are doing to support him. For that matter...thats actually a HELL of an effective way to support him. They willingly open themselves up to scorn and hatred from people like yourself to publicly declare they believe in a fellow officer. They dare to actually support their 'community'. How dare they.
    What facts are you talking about? I missed what you've done to support Wilson and the rest of his fellow officers.....

    And it's a stupid way to support Wilson. It's a mystery how or why pissing off a big chunk of the town who pays your salary and people across the country is an effective approach to solving any problem, or supporting someone. If they make a bunch of people really mad, keep the black community in Ferguson riled up and aligned against them, the media focusing negative attention on the police force, that helps Wilson if there's a trial? How does that work? I'd love to see the dots connected on that.

    It might make wingnuts feel better, but other than that, I can't see a big benefit.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oh, is that what the DOJ is for? The thought police?

    How is supporting a fellow officer, "racism"
    The officer is WHITE, duh!
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Jesus i hate liberals. They are all about innocent until proven guilty, that is unless a black thug was killed by a cop doing his job. Last i heard there is no way wilson gets indicted.

    The doj has zero business telling a local pd what to wear,

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What facts are you talking about? I missed what you've done to support Wilson and the rest of his fellow officers.....

    And it's a stupid way to support Wilson. It's a mystery how or why pissing off a big chunk of the town who pays your salary and people across the country is an effective approach to solving any problem, or supporting someone. If they make a bunch of people really mad, keep the black community in Ferguson riled up and aligned against them, the media focusing negative attention on the police force, that helps Wilson if there's a trial? How does that work? I'd love to see the dots connected on that.

    It might make wingnuts feel better, but other than that, I can't see a big benefit.
    Nope...see...you are stuck on insisting they not support their OWN community.

    I dont live there. I support both communities by NOT judging or condemning or blaming and by waiting until we actually know whats what to find the answers. In my OWN community, lets just say that I have spent more time behind bars with prisoners and on the outside with recently paroled felons working on actual change than you can possibly imagine.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Nope...see...you are stuck on insisting they not support their OWN community.

    I dont live there. I support both communities by NOT judging or condemning or blaming and by waiting until we actually know whats what to find the answers. In my OWN community, lets just say that I have spent more time behind bars with prisoners and on the outside with recently paroled felons working on actual change than you can possibly imagine.
    You're trying to miss the point, obviously. Me:

    I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting.
    I've said the same thing 10 times, and yet you still misrepresent my position. And waiting on you connecting the dots explaining how the bracelets are a good way to support Wilson.

    And on the rest of it, you're digging a bigger hole for yourself. If you really cared about the Wilson or the police officers, you'd have been there. Right? That's the VanceMack standard for others! And you're making assumptions about someone you don't know a thing about.

    Without going into details, I've been on the BOD for 6 years of a charity that takes and houses about 150 men, most of them homeless before they came to us and addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Most of them with mental illness. About 60% of them veterans. Lots of folks use our place as their first stop out of prison for parole purposes. If we had more room, we could house 500 men based on our waiting list. They work, cook their own meals, pay their fines and child support, clean their rooms, etc. They file tax returns, and I know this because I prepare a bunch of them for them. Etc. We do good work for people who don't have a lot of options.

    So good for you on your efforts. Those guys often need a lot of help. But you should avoid assuming you're somehow unique in this world, or that those who disagree with you must be bad people, instead of people who disagree but who have the same goals as you.

    Anyway, we're about to get the ban hammer, so I think I'll bow out for good. Later.
    Last edited by JasperL; 09-30-14 at 01:54 PM.

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