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Thread: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

  1. #251
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    The Chief made the request of his men. If the order was unlawful, I'm sure he or his men would have not carried it out.

    What is so hard to understand?

    You want to focus on the DoJ, the rioters, the protests, the looters, the dead kid, the officer that shot the kid.

    Why not focus on the request by the Chief to his men. Period.
    You are misrepresenting what went down....Here is the opening paragraph from the OP:

    "FERGUSON Mo. (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department asked the Ferguson, Missouri, Police Department on Friday to order its officers not to wear bracelets in support of the white policeman who shot to death an unarmed black teenager last month, sparking protests."

    Further down:

    "The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them. Ferguson police could not be reached for comment on Friday evening."

    Now, it is clear to see what is going on here and it isn't what you just portrayed.
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    What are they protesting exactly?
    Ask the person I was responding to. I have no idea.

    I said the citizens have a right to protest. apdst said, "A right that the officers have, as well" which is true enough, but I'm not aware of any 'right' to do as you want while on the job, in uniform, which is what the current discussion is about.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Ask the person I was responding to. I have no idea.

    I said the citizens have a right to protest. apdst said, "A right that the officers have, as well" which is true enough, but I'm not aware of any 'right' to do as you want while on the job, in uniform, which is what the current discussion is about.
    Then if they aren't protesting anything, they should be allowed to wear them.

  4. #254
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yes, their duty is to enforce the law, and as of yet that shooting is still under investigation. And there is no charge yet - the grand jury hasn't met, the investigation is ongoing.

    It's obvious you've made up your mind that the Darren Wilson is innocent, the protesters are wrong, etc. And that conclusion before the facts are known is driving your opinion of the whole issue. Again, that's great for you. But it's unbelievable that you can't see the bracelets on the job in uniform are a terrible idea. If your son was shot by police, and they announced their biases this way, you'd be opposed. That's all it takes to understand why the community might object to them wearing them in this case.
    Yeah, so I have come to certain conclusions, what's the problem with that? I am not in LE at any level, I am allowed to have an opinion.

    No, but they serve the people of Ferguson, and they don't pay them to wear bracelets saying, "I AM [the person whose actions you are protesting]" while in uniform, on the job.
    Show the regulation where it is prohibited, or dispense with the emotional argument.

    Well, that's not at all what I said, and I did qualify the statement. You can quote it if you want. I won't bother - not worth the effort.
    "Even easier, be a professional and don't wear bracelets to work that have the potential to make the situation you're trying to defuse worse."

    The thing making the situation worse are those on the MB side that are using this event for some trumped up agenda. The officer (I feel, and obviously so do those wearing the bracelets) was unfairly accused, tried, and convicted in the court of public opinion in the media for doing his job, and trying to return home alive. I don't see a problem supporting him. Now if there is some regulation in the Ferguson rules, and standards handbook you can point out concerning things like this then so be it....But, my argument really is more along the lines of the DoJ not liking that anyone support the officer in this case tells (orders ) Ferguson's Chief to tell his men to take off the bracelet.

    That shows more bias than the cops wearing the rubber band....I certainly wouldn't look for a fair investigation from the Fed's knowing this....

    And further, how said is it now that the FBI has been so politicized? Ain't that great?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are misrepresenting what went down....Here is the opening paragraph from the OP:

    "FERGUSON Mo. (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department asked the Ferguson, Missouri, Police Department on Friday to order its officers not to wear bracelets in support of the white policeman who shot to death an unarmed black teenager last month, sparking protests."

    Further down:


    "The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them. Ferguson police could not be reached for comment on Friday evening."

    Now, it is clear to see what is going on here and it isn't what you just portrayed.
    Did you read what you posted?

    There was no formal "force of law" command from the DoJ.

    The Chief chose to follow the recommendation of the DoJ and ask his men not to wear the bands.

    The men complied with the request from the chief.

    I highlighted in red the important facts...and in black the relevant words.


    Under the Freedom of Information act...if there was, in fact, a formal order from the chief to the men to stop wearing the bands that should be documented.

    I'll wait to see that order.


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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Did you read what you posted?

    There was no formal "force of law" command from the DoJ.

    The Chief chose to follow the recommendation of the DoJ and ask his men not to wear the bands.

    The men complied with the request from the chief.

    I highlighted in red the important facts...and in black the relevant words.


    Under the Freedom of Information act...if there was, in fact, a formal order from the chief to the men to stop wearing the bands that should be documented.

    I'll wait to see that order.
    Yeah, I know all about "asking" someone to do something.... and further why did you alter what I posted and take the bold emphasis off of the part saying "...to order its officers..."

    The Chief according to the story complied with the "request", and ORDERED its officers to not wear the bracelets...

    Again you are misrepresenting, subtly but none the less. It's dishonest.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, so I have come to certain conclusions, what's the problem with that? I am not in LE at any level, I am allowed to have an opinion.
    No problem at all, and I'm sure I said exactly that, twice.

    Show the regulation where it is prohibited, or dispense with the emotional argument.
    It's an argument based on the common sense of a gnat, not emotional.

    "Even easier, be a professional and don't wear bracelets to work that have the potential to make the situation you're trying to defuse worse."
    That's the quote, and the bolded part is the qualifier which you said didn't exist. Thanks for that.

    The thing making the situation worse are those on the MB side that are using this event for some trumped up agenda. The officer (I feel, and obviously so do those wearing the bracelets) was unfairly accused, tried, and convicted in the court of public opinion in the media for doing his job, and trying to return home alive. I don't see a problem supporting him. Now if there is some regulation in the Ferguson rules, and standards handbook you can point out concerning things like this then so be it....
    You've come to a conclusion and it differs from that of the community, and your position is based on that conclusion. I don't think it's appropriate for police serving the community to broadcast their support of a conclusion while in uniform, on the job, serving the people who disagree quite strongly with them. Who should those officers serve - their fellow officer, wingnuts all across America or their community?

    But, my argument really is more along the lines of the DoJ not liking that anyone support the officer in this case tells (orders ) Ferguson's Chief to tell his men to take off the bracelet.

    That shows more bias than the cops wearing the rubber band....I certainly wouldn't look for a fair investigation from the Fed's knowing this....
    That's a pretty surprising couple of sentences to string together. You believe the DoJ has taken a side, and then say based on that you don't expect a fair investigation from the Feds. But you're OK with the police officers taking a side, and despite them doing so, expect a fair investigation from them and the rest of the Ferguson law enforcement community. It's stunning you can't see the disconnect in your own statements, in the same post.

    And further, how said is it now that the FBI has been so politicized? Ain't that great?
    I'm not sure what you're referring to there. Have the FBI issued a biased report on an investigation that I somehow missed?

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is the "policy" of any localities uniform, the business of the DoJ?
    I would say no, but once the DOJ leans on the administration of the dept. Its over. They wont push back.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The only apparent racism has been by the perp, and his supporting cast of criminals who have smashed windows, set things on fire and in general have been nuisances. The attorney general supports the criminal element against the police.


    If there has been any evidence against the police officer the AG would have already come to the cameras and sang like a canary. He hasn't. Has he?


    Believe whatever you want to believe, it will have no effect on reality and won't cost me a penny.



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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The bracelets says "I Am Darren Wilson".
    now it becomes borderline for me.....

    "i support all men in blue" i could have dealt with

    "we are all brothers in arms" that could have worked

    for them to say "i am officer wilson" i think takes it too far

    if it was my decision, i dont think i would allow them.....

    i would allow something less controversial...as my earlier quotes

    and i think most people could also support that stand.....

    just my two cents
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    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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