Page 15 of 33 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 326

Thread: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

  1. #141
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,175

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so you're taking a position identical to those demanding an indictment before any evidence has been been examined, only you're on the other side. Good to know. In the view of some protesters, the cops siding with a murderer goes without saying....



    That's not even approaching an apples to apples comparison. That list includes nothing about the police taking sides in a matter under current investigation and which might or might not lead to one of their own being charged with a crime including murder.

    And the police don't have a first amendment 'right' to wear whatever the hell they want on their uniforms and say whatever the hell they want while on duty. Or, perhaps they have that "right," and their employer has the right to fire them for cause, immediately, if their actions undermine their official duties, and declaring to the protesters that they have taken side with the person whose actions they are protesting undermines the police's ability to be trusted by the public to be impartial.
    I did no such thing - I've simply taken my anecdotal recollections of the way this DOJ, under this President, has handled issues that have a racial component and determined that they are unprofessionally biased in favour of one side and one side only.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #142
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    You do know that every black and white person in the USA is a separate human being with their own life to live outside of the group that they belong to, eh?

  3. #143
    Phonetic Mnemonic ©
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:26 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,397

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    This is about the worst thing the local police could do from a PR aspect, and only demonstrates their complete lack of judgment and rational forethought... which is probably why things got out of hand to begin with.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #144
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,719

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You have no trouble attributing positions to me that I haven't stated yet you bristle when I do the same based on your words.
    You said this: "support their union members who are being criticized and/or under criminal investigation for carrying out their duties as assigned."

    Their duty isn't to shoot an unarmed person. Whether that person was a threat to the officer, who initiated the physical confrontation, when and under what circumstances the police officer killed Brown, are all subjects of the investigation. If the investigation determined the officer shot Brown with his hands up surrendering, he is a criminal. We don't know whether he did or not. And while that investigation is ongoing the police have a duty to be impartial enforcers of the law, including against their own. Wearing the bracelets signals they aren't even pretending to be impartial. It's a dangerous signal to the community, especially when that community is protesting, and will make the situation worse, which is directly contrary to their duty to that community, who like it or not is who they serve.

    I've indicated that police union members expressing solidarity with one of their own isn't the slightest bit troubling to me. Police are often considered, for better or worse, like a family and families often provide unconditional support for family members in times of trouble. I've seen it numerous times here in Toronto and it doesn't bother me one bit. You, however, seem to think that if only the police were a little more circumspect, a little less transparent, people would assume they're not actually supportive of their own member - that's pretty inane if you ask me.
    I expect them to support their own. But they have to use the common sense God gave a gnat while on duty, in uniform.

    As for the DOJ's conflict of interest, the DOJ has decided that they will investigate the entire Ferguson PD for signs/incidents of racism. I find it to be very poor judgement, at least, and potentially illegal intimidation, for the DOJ to attempt to dictate what officers in the Ferguson PD may or may not wear in support of their fellow officer. It would be no different than any other situation were a judge to try to influence testimony in a case he/she was going to solely adjudicate. The mere fact that the DOJ implies in their "request" that the wearing of the bands exacerbates racial tensions is enough to discredit any outcome DOJ investigators may arrive at.
    They're asking people whose duty it is to impartial enforcers of the law to at least make the barest public show that they'll pretend to do their duty. Nothing more. They're not saying the officers cannot speak out while off duty, on their own time, etc.

    And there is no need to "imply" the bands exacerbates racial tensions - that is a question of fact, that really has nothing to do with you or me supporting the officer or the protesters. They view it, correctly in my view, as a FU to the protesters, same as taping over their names. But even if I'm wrong and it's simply a show of support for their union brother, you can't control what or how the protesters view those bracelets. And on duty, in uniform, while engaging with the protesters, they have a duty to appear impartial.

  5. #145
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We KNOW that? Please post this new incontrovertible evidence!

    Just as I thought. You do not know the known evidence.
    If you want to learn it, go to one of the threads where it is discussed.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You've looked at SOME of the evidence and decided based on a partial knowledge of some of it that the officer is innocent.
    Wrong.
    I have looked at all that is available and based on the totality of it realize the Officer was not wrong.
    When the initial claims of "hands up" were changed it becomes obvious that all the other accounts were fabrications based off the original false claims.
    Especially as we have evidence that he was approaching the Officer as the Officer fired upon him.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The protesters, looking at the same partial evidence and their incomplete knowledge of it have come to a different conclusion.....
    Spare us the false info. The potestors are not looking at the same evidnce.
    They are only looking at and considering the false narrative that was initially spread. They haven't looked at all of the known evidence.
    They went with the false claims of his hands were up surrendering, and that he was executed. Crying hands up don't shoot. Which should receive the response, "Pants up don't loot".


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Their employer believes differently. If they'd wanted officers to just display badge numbers, they'd have given them badges with no names. And I don't think in other circumstances employees are allowed to overrule employers with no consequence, and I sure haven't seen conservatives supporting that as a matter of principle.
    What the hell are you talking about? Badges come with a number. Name tag are separate.
    Nor have employees overruled anybody here.
    You are speaking nonsense.

    And as stated.
    Protocol is not law.
    And it is especially wise of them not to wear name tags with the calls for vigilantism and the outing of their family and home locations. Their badge number is sufficient.
    Do you really not understand the above?
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #146
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,175

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You said this: "support their union members who are being criticized and/or under criminal investigation for carrying out their duties as assigned."
    You don't think officer Wilson was carrying out his duties as assigned on the day this incident happened? I do. You may, the court may, public opinion may, determine that he was negligent in carrying out those duties, but there's zero doubt he was working at that time. If he robbed a liquor store and shot Brown in the process, we wouldn't be talking about support among the police force for their member.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    They're asking people whose duty it is to impartial enforcers of the law to at least make the barest public show that they'll pretend to do their duty.
    One would hope the DOJ would follow this sage advice, but not under this Attorney General and President.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And there is no need to "imply" the bands exacerbates racial tensions - that is a question of fact, that really has nothing to do with you or me supporting the officer or the protesters. They view it, correctly in my view, as a FU to the protesters, same as taping over their names. But even if I'm wrong and it's simply a show of support for their union brother, you can't control what or how the protesters view those bracelets. And on duty, in uniform, while engaging with the protesters, they have a duty to appear impartial.
    No, I can't control the irrational behaviour of protestors nor the racial animus they have in their hearts. Nor do I expect to bow to that irrational behaviour nor that racial animus. You may want to, I don't.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  7. #147
    Wrinkly member
    Manc Skipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Southern England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    23,148

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    The namebands are provocation in a situation that doesn't need it. Neither are they part of the uniform, so should not be worn on duty.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  8. #148
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    This is about the worst thing the local police could do from a PR aspect, and only demonstrates their complete lack of judgment and rational forethought... which is probably why things got out of hand to begin with.
    Wrong.
    The individual/s wearing them actually demonstrate that they have fine judgement and support the correct side.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  9. #149
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The namebands are provocation in a situation that doesn't need it. Neither are they part of the uniform, so should not be worn on duty.

    Bs.
    It is not provocation.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  10. #150
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,719

    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Just as I thought. You do not know the known evidence.
    If you want to learn it, go to one of the threads where it is discussed.

    Wrong.
    I have looked at all that is available and based on the totality of it realize the Officer was not wrong.
    When the initial claims of "hands up" were changed it becomes obvious that all the other accounts were fabrications based off the original false claims.
    Especially as we have evidence that he was approaching the Officer as the Officer fired upon him.

    Spare us the false info. The potestors are not looking at the same evidnce.
    They are only looking at and considering the false narrative that was initially spread. They haven't looked at all of the known evidence.
    They went with the false claims of his hands were up surrendering, and that he was executed. Crying hands up don't shoot. Which should receive the response, "Pants up don't loot".
    Nothing like stereotyping the entire crowd with negative stereotypes to show your impartiality and reasoned analysis of the evidence.... I'd respond but there is no real point. You're clearly not interested in looking at the issue objectively.

    What the hell are you talking about? Badges come with a number. Name tag are separate.
    Nor have employees overruled anybody here.
    You are speaking nonsense.

    And as stated.
    Protocol is not law.
    And it is especially wise of them not to wear name tags with the calls for vigilantism and the outing of their family and home locations. Their badge number is sufficient.
    Do you really not understand the above?
    So the people in charge have approved officers taping over their name tags? I'd like to see the evidence for that?

    If you can find it, it's more evidence the person in charge is an idiot and should be fired.

Page 15 of 33 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •