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Thread: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

  1. #131
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    SB, that's totally irrelevant. I made no mention of demonstrations but referenced the fact Obama ventured into where his mouth didn't belong.

    And there were riots of blacks in the slave era, only you simply shot them then.


    I know that there were and that's exactly what I was talking about.

    Supposedly the USA has moved beyond that kind of thing. Has it?

    I have read reports that indicate that it still has quite a ways to go.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It might very well be that. But the case isn't resolved. Lots of people on both sides have made their minds up, but we don't actually know what really happened, and there has been no trial or other process to resolve the big differences in the accounts.

    And in the meantime, while policing protests by the black community over this incident, POLICE OFFICERS ON DUTY are wearing bracelets saying "I AM [the person whose actions you are protesting]" It's a giant FU to the protesters. The DOJ letter also said they'd received reports that at least some of those seen wearing the bracelets had also blacked over their names with tape, which is a further FU to the protesters.

    Seriously, do you think wearing a bracelet saying "I AM [THE ACCUSED PERSON]" and blacking over their name tag is a good way to signal to the public you serve that you're a trusted and impartial defender of the law? It's unprofessional and shouldn't be tolerated, especially in a volatile situation that the police are supposed to be working to make less so, not pouring gas on the flames, which those bracelets and blacking over name tags just does. Whether DOJ has the authority to request or demand this I have no idea, and it's largely beside the point. It shouldn't be happening.

    The time and place for supporting their union member and fellow officer is off duty on their own time and in civilian clothes.
    Actually, for me, one of the only reasons unions should exist at this point in time is to collectively support their union members who are being criticized and/or under criminal investigation for carrying out their duties as assigned. Some may think that unions should only exist to siphon money from workers into the coffers of Democrat politicians and supporting liberal agendas. I think they are in existence to take care of the welfare of their union membership. This is one way of doing it.

    Secondly, you seem to have no problem with the Justice Department's conflict of interest here while you criticize the local police for what you see as a conflict of interest. You see this as white against black, as clearly the racist leadership of the Department of Justice also does. I feel pretty safe in saying that if a black police officer was being treated in the same manner in this community, the Ferguson PD would be acting in a similar manner. But then, those who trade in race baiting wouldn't ever notice.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    A reasonable request if the PD is actually interested in maintaining at least an image of impartiality. It certainly couldn't hurt its standing with the community.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Speaking of prejudice, let's say you're a Ferguson police officer being interviewed by DOJ. What would you think if the investigator wore a bracelet, "I AM MICHAEL BROWN"?

    It takes the common sense of a gnat to realize the bracelets shouldn't be worn by anyone in an official capacity anywhere near Ferguson MO.
    Firstly, if an investigator from the DOJ in this matter wore a bracelet saying "I AM MICHAEL BROWN" I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised. In my view, that goes without saying. There's clearly only one position taken by the leadership of this DOJ, right up to the President. If they wore such a bracelet, it would be refreshingly honest and transparent.

    Secondly, ever see an officer wear a bracelet or ribbon in support of breast cancer awareness, aids awareness, gay rights, hate crime awareness, etc.? I have. Should they only be allowed to express their first amendment rights by wearing bracelets that have been sanctioned by the PC censors?
    Last edited by CanadaJohn; 09-28-14 at 01:54 PM.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Firstly, if an investigator from the DOJ in this matter wore a bracelet saying "I AM MICHAEL BROWN" I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised. In my view, that goes without saying. There's clearly only one position taken by the leadership of this DOJ, right up to the President. If they wore such a bracelet, it would be refreshingly honest and transparent.
    OK, so you're taking a position identical to those demanding an indictment before any evidence has been been examined, only you're on the other side. Good to know. In the view of some protesters, the cops siding with a murderer goes without saying....

    Secondly, ever see an officer wear a bracelet or ribbon in support of breast cancer awareness, aids awareness, gay rights, hate crime awareness, etc.? I have. Should they be allowed to only be allowed to express their first amendment rights by wearing bracelets that have been sanctioned by the PC censors?
    That's not even approaching an apples to apples comparison. That list includes nothing about the police taking sides in a matter under current investigation and which might or might not lead to one of their own being charged with a crime including murder.

    And the police don't have a first amendment 'right' to wear whatever the hell they want on their uniforms and say whatever the hell they want while on duty. Or, perhaps they have that "right," and their employer has the right to fire them for cause, immediately, if their actions undermine their official duties, and declaring to the protesters that they have taken side with the person whose actions they are protesting undermines the police's ability to be trusted by the public to be impartial.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so you're taking a position identical to those demanding an indictment before any evidence has been been examined, only you're on the other side. Good to know. In the view of some protesters, the cops siding with a murderer goes without saying....



    That's not even approaching an apples to apples comparison. That list includes nothing about the police taking sides in a matter under current investigation and which might or might not lead to one of their own being charged with a crime including murder.

    And the police don't have a first amendment 'right' to wear whatever the hell they want on their uniforms and say whatever the hell they want while on duty. Or, perhaps they have that "right," and their employer has the right to fire them for cause, immediately, if their actions undermine their official duties, and declaring to the protesters that they have taken side with the person whose actions they are protesting undermines the police's ability to be trusted by the public to be impartial.
    The letter to the ferguson pd also stated that The police officers in ferguson were also violating name tag protocol by not wearing identifiable name tags
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Actually, for me, one of the only reasons unions should exist at this point in time is to collectively support their union members who are being criticized and/or under criminal investigation for carrying out their duties as assigned. Some may think that unions should only exist to siphon money from workers into the coffers of Democrat politicians and supporting liberal agendas. I think they are in existence to take care of the welfare of their union membership. This is one way of doing it.
    You've imagined the motives for the bracelets then attributed it to the officers. It's nice to do that for them, but there is no basis for your position. And you've already declared Wilson innocent of any wrongdoing, which of course I could have guessed.

    Secondly, you seem to have no problem with the Justice Department's conflict of interest here while you criticize the local police for what you see as a conflict of interest. You see this as white against black, as clearly the racist leadership of the Department of Justice also does. I feel pretty safe in saying that if a black police officer was being treated in the same manner in this community, the Ferguson PD would be acting in a similar manner. But then, those who trade in race baiting wouldn't ever notice.
    What is the DOJ's conflict of interest here? I have no idea which conflict I supposedly have no problem with.

    And please explain where I have said either that the issue is just a black versus white issue, and I've taken the position of blacks. I haven't taken their position, except to note the obvious that police officers declaring their support for the accused murderer is inappropriate while the investigation is ongoing, especially on duty while engaged with protesters. It's a FU to the protesters, and is made worse by some of the same ones allegedly blacking out their badges.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so you're taking a position identical to those demanding an indictment before any evidence has been been examined, only you're on the other side. Good to know. In the view of some protesters, the cops siding with a murderer goes without saying....
    And in light of the evidence we know of the protestors are in the wrong for believing that and for protesting based on false beliefs.





    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    The letter to the ferguson pd also stated that The police officers in ferguson were also violating name tag protocol by not wearing identifiable name tags
    Protocol is not law.
    And it is especially wise of them not to wear name tags with the calls for vigilantism and the outing of their family and home locations. Their badge number is sufficient.
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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And in light of the evidence we know of the protestors are in the wrong for believing that and for protesting based on false beliefs.
    We KNOW that? Please post this new incontrovertible evidence!

    You've looked at SOME of the evidence and decided based on a partial knowledge of some of it that the officer is innocent. The protesters, looking at the same partial evidence and their incomplete knowledge of it have come to a different conclusion.....

    Protocol is not law.
    And it is especially wise of them not to wear name tags with the calls for vigilantism and the outing of their family and home locations. Their badge number is sufficient.
    Their employer believes differently. If they'd wanted officers to just display badge numbers, they'd have given them badges with no names. And I don't think in other circumstances employees are allowed to overrule employers with no consequence, and I sure haven't seen conservatives supporting that as a matter of principle.

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    Re: Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You've imagined the motives for the bracelets then attributed it to the officers. It's nice to do that for them, but there is no basis for your position. And you've already declared Wilson innocent of any wrongdoing, which of course I could have guessed.



    What is the DOJ's conflict of interest here? I have no idea which conflict I supposedly have no problem with.

    And please explain where I have said either that the issue is just a black versus white issue, and I've taken the position of blacks. I haven't taken their position, except to note the obvious that police officers declaring their support for the accused murderer is inappropriate while the investigation is ongoing, especially on duty while engaged with protesters. It's a FU to the protesters, and is made worse by some of the same ones allegedly blacking out their badges.
    You have no trouble attributing positions to me that I haven't stated yet you bristle when I do the same based on your words.

    I've indicated that police union members expressing solidarity with one of their own isn't the slightest bit troubling to me. Police are often considered, for better or worse, like a family and families often provide unconditional support for family members in times of trouble. I've seen it numerous times here in Toronto and it doesn't bother me one bit. You, however, seem to think that if only the police were a little more circumspect, a little less transparent, people would assume they're not actually supportive of their own member - that's pretty inane if you ask me.

    As for the DOJ's conflict of interest, the DOJ has decided that they will investigate the entire Ferguson PD for signs/incidents of racism. I find it to be very poor judgement, at least, and potentially illegal intimidation, for the DOJ to attempt to dictate what officers in the Ferguson PD may or may not wear in support of their fellow officer. It would be no different than any other situation were a judge to try to influence testimony in a case he/she was going to solely adjudicate. The mere fact that the DOJ implies in their "request" that the wearing of the bands exacerbates racial tensions is enough to discredit any outcome DOJ investigators may arrive at.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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