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FBI looking into Moore beheading after suspect tried to convert others to Islam

Ockham said:
You're refusing to give your own definition of terrorism by deflecting and asking mine. You made a statement which was:



Therefore you must have a definition of what is or is not terrorism so I'm asking, nicely, what that definition is which produces your quoted opinion above.
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I would define it as the unlawful use of violence, threats, or other fear-inducing tactics against civilian or other non-combatant targets in furtherance of a political goal.

Use of violence against military targets tends to be referred to as "war."
 
apdst said:
It's terrorism, if terrorists do it. Hasan is an Islamic terrorist.
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Ahh, so Hassan's actions were terrorism because he is a terrorist. And he's a terrorist because he commits terrorism!
 
Deuce said:
My point is that you perceive any random murder committed by a Muslim as "a problem within our borders" that the President must personally deal with, but you don't perceive the same about any random murder committed by any other demographic.
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This was a random murder?

Do you not see the similarity between this one and some things we have seen over there?

How many random murders involve beheading?
 
ocean515 said:
I think the challenge people have in separating the two is the "Allah Akbar" chants and the ties to terrorist groups and individuals that have formed a common thread between these murderers.

It's kind of a mystery why people work so hard to deny the obvious.

Perhaps the demands from the PC patrol requires rejection of any connection that appear to be plausible.
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Except "Allah Akbar" isn't a "terrorist phrase," and so far I've seen no evidence that this guy had any ties to a terrorist group. (Although I haven't watched the news much for the last couple days)
 
Mason66 said:
This was a random murder?

Do you not see the similarity between this one and some things we have seen over there?

How many random murders involve beheading?
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Terrorists sometimes shoot people, that doesn't make all shootings terrorism.

If he was trying to achieve a political goal and scare Americans, he's a terrorist. If he was getting revenge for being fired, he's just an ordinary murderous lunatic.

Let me be clear about my statements: I have not said "this guy isn't a terrorist." I don't know the full story of his motivations.

What I have said is "being Muslim and killing someone brutally is not inherently terrorism." Saying "Allah Akbar" before you kill someone doesn't make you a terrorist any more than "praise Jesus" would.
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
There are things called "copycat murders"
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Yes there are but that doesn't make this woman any less dead or her death any less brutal.

The point was that these types of things don't happen in the US so there is nothing to worry about.

The bad people are so far away, that nobody in the US should be worried.

That is what the politicians are telling people, but we can see that it is not true.
 
Mason66 said:
Yes there are but that doesn't make this woman any less dead or her death any less brutal.

The point was that these types of things don't happen in the US so there is nothing to worry about.

The bad people are so far away, that nobody in the US should be worried.

That is what the politicians are telling people, but we can see that it is not true.
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Nobody ever said that murder doesn't exist in America, not sure where you got that idea.
 
Deuce said:
Terrorists sometimes shoot people, that doesn't make all shootings terrorism.

If he was trying to achieve a political goal and scare Americans, he's a terrorist. If he was getting revenge for being fired, he's just an ordinary murderous lunatic.
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And since he is dead you don't know which one is true.
 
Mason66 said:
And since he is dead you don't know which one is true.
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Correct. Unless investigation reveals something to provide a better picture of the underlying motive. But "recently fired, goes back to workplace and commits murder" does not jump out to me as having a terrorists' motivations.
 
Deuce said:
I would define it as the unlawful use of violence, threats, or other fear-inducing tactics against civilian or other non-combatant targets in furtherance of a political goal.

Use of violence against military targets tends to be referred to as "war."
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So would you say it's impossible to cause terrorism against the military - For example, some future catastrophic bombing of the Pentagon would simply be referred to as an act of war even if it were perpetrated by a group like Al Qaeda or ISIS?

And I'm not sure how one can understand someone like this guy Nolen, unless he comes out and confesses it was for ISIS. He could just say he felt the need to kill people in Allah's name - and given your definition that also would not be terrorism since there was no known political goal. Any one can then kill others in the name of a religion or for any reason and it's not terrorism unless there is some known political goal - even if the evidence shows intent, a admiration of a terrorist group, the yells of "allah akbar", acts which emulate other actual terrorist acts... that's not good enough is what your saying. Obviously I disagree and if that is the definition that is most often used, a redefinition is needed.
 
So a mentally ill man who's a year out from a two year sentence for mutiple drug convictions storms out of his firing and goes straight across to attack his supervisors with his work tool. Terrible, terrifying, but not terrorism.
 
Manc Skipper said:
So a mentally ill man who's a year out from a two year sentence for mutiple drug convictions storms out of his firing and goes straight across to attack his supervisors with his work tool. Terrible, terrifying, but not terrorism.
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What if there is evidence this character is linked to Al Qaeda Leader Awlaki, the Boston Bomber's Mosque? That he was fired over an argument about stoning women.......... that on a facebook page he spewed radical Islam all over it praising those who have harmed us and continue to threaten to harm our citizens?

Oklahoma Beheader Linked to Al Qaeda Leader Awlaki, Boston Bomber's Mosque
 
Manc Skipper said:
So a mentally ill man who's a year out from a two year sentence for mutiple drug convictions storms out of his firing and goes straight across to attack his supervisors with his work tool. Terrible, terrifying, but not terrorism.
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With his 'work tool'. A great euphemism! And decapitating the woman was, like Fort Hood, just more violence in the workplace? Nothing to with Islam of course, despite his Facebook page. **GRAPHIC** Oklahoma Muslim Beheader Jah’Keem Yisrael’s Facebook Page is All About Islam | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

Terrifying, but not terrorism. 'Terrifying' just happened to be an unexpected consequence of another random workplace beheading..

Winning Heads and Minds :: SteynOnline
 
Grant said:
With his 'work tool'. A great euphemism! And decapitating the woman was, like Fort Hood, just more violence in the workplace? Nothing to with Islam of course, despite his Facebook page. **GRAPHIC** Oklahoma Muslim Beheader Jah’Keem Yisrael’s Facebook Page is All About Islam | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

Terrifying, but not terrorism. 'Terrifying' just happened to be an unexpected consequence of another random workplace beheading..

Winning Heads and Minds :: SteynOnline
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Is this a side effect of 9/11? Are you so blinded by rage and a desire to seek vengeance that you think every practicioner of Islam is guilty?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Is this a side effect of 9/11? Are you so blinded by rage and a desire to seek vengeance that you think every practicioner of Islam is guilty?
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9/11? Rage? Blinded? Vengeance? Settle down before one of those little veins in your head bursts.
 
Travis007 said:
Obama is having a coronary.. a NRA , private company evil riich guy .. saved people by owning a gun..

bad day in Obamaland...this story is a NON story..MSNBC will bury it.. and go back to the 250 days of "Chris Christies orange conegate"
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Actually the real blessing is that the perp did NOT have a gun. There would have been much more carnage if that were the case. A baseball bat would have been just as good to subdue him too.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually the real blessing is that the perp did NOT have a gun. There would have been much more carnage if that were the case. A baseball bat would have been just as good to subdue him too.
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A gun doesn't carry as much symbolism for Muslims intent on making a point..
 
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