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Thread: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve


    So we have no Americans or legal aliens that can do this? Really?
    It may not be a good thing, but stop being so damn partisan, its nothing new.

    In July 2002 the manpower demands on the U.S. military of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan prompted President George Bush to sign an Executive Order making all non-citizens on Active Duty during the Global War on Terror eligible for immediate American citizenship. Previously, non-citizens were required to serve on active duty for three years before they could apply for citizenship. By September 2003, there were approximately 37,000 active duty soldiers (or about 3 percent) who were not U.S. citizens. In addition, there were another 13,000 non-citizen reservists.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I wasn't aware that you asked me such a question, but I'll take it on.

    To me it's not the same thing as putting your life on the life in defense of a country you really don't have an allegiance to, but believe in that country's strength, values, traditions and overall way of life and wish to adopt it as your own. As such, I don't see being an independent contractor in the same light. You may volunteer to go "over there" and your life could possibly be in peril, but your incentive is the potential financial gains, not loyalty to your would-be adopted country.
    All those things can be accounted for without having the person actually being allowed to join the military. A path to citizenship for these people would be enticing. Also, just allowing these people into the military is no assurance of loyalty if they have ulterior motives.

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve


    So we have no Americans or legal aliens that can do this? Really?
    Think of it as the American version of the French Foreign Legion.
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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It may not be a good thing, but stop being so damn partisan, its nothing new.

    In July 2002 the manpower demands on the U.S. military of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan prompted President George Bush to sign an Executive Order making all non-citizens on Active Duty during the Global War on Terror eligible for immediate American citizenship. Previously, non-citizens were required to serve on active duty for three years before they could apply for citizenship. By September 2003, there were approximately 37,000 active duty soldiers (or about 3 percent) who were not U.S. citizens. In addition, there were another 13,000 non-citizen reservists.
    But they weren't illegal.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Immigrant aliens have been allowed to serve in our nation's military for quite some time. This is nothing new.

    Relevant pages from Department of Homeland Security website:

    Citizenship for Military Personnel & Family Members | USCIS

    Chapter 3, Part I, Volume 12 - Military Service during Hostilities (INA 329) | Policy Manual | USCIS

    Also, chapters 322, 328 and 329 of U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Act (as revised, 2013) that apply.

    I'm not saying this couldn't be problematic as we've already seen with at least one Muslin spy in our midst and one mass shooting on Ft. Hood Army base from a Army office with ties to Muslim extremism. I am saying, however, this path to U.S. citizenship for foreign born personnel who honorable serve on active duty in our military is nothing new especially during war time or during global hostilities. If they're willing to risk taking a bullet in defense of our country swearing allegiance to same, why would we not grant them citizenship for honorable time served?
    As far as I know, ILLEGALS serving is new.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    But they weren't illegal.
    Just five days before Ekaterine Bautista planned to become an American citizen, she got a call from the federal government: Her swearing-in ceremony had been canceled pending further investigation.

    Bautista was devastated. An illegal immigrant from Mexico, she had served six years in the U.S. military including a 13-month tour of duty in Iraq and was eligible to apply for naturalization under a decades-old law.

    Iraq war veteran may be denied citizenship - Los Angeles Times
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    All those things can be accounted for without having the person actually being allowed to join the military. A path to citizenship for these people would be enticing. Also, just allowing these people into the military is no assurance of loyalty if they have ulterior motives.
    You gloss over the fine print: National conflict (i.e., "times of war or armed campaign") and "Honorable Discharge".

    If you're willing to put your life on the line in defense of this country during armed conflict or war when you don't have anything to gain except U.S. citizenship should you serve honorably and live through the conflict, you deserve to gain U.S. citizenship status. I know people who were born in America and have never served. Talk about "put up or shut up!"

    Your fear-mongering is truly un-necessary. If those who volunteer to serve under the guidelines of the program as summarized in the OP returned after having received an Honorable Discharge, why would you deny them the right of U.S. citizenship?
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    As far as I know, ILLEGALS serving is new.
    Then perhaps you should read the Immigration and Naturalization law and familiarize yourself with the guidelines and the history towhich this thread pertains. And if you think this is something new or just something that came about during the current Obama Administration...

    By Executive Order Number 13269, dated July 3, 2002, President Bush declared that all those persons serving honorably in active-duty status in the Armed Forces of the United States at any time on or after September 11, 2001 until a date to be announced, are eligible to apply for naturalization in accordance with the service during hostilities statutory exception in Section 329 of the INA to the naturalization requirements. This means that individuals with even one day of honorable active duty service can apply for citizenship, regardless of how long they have been a resident. Note: Under this provision, individuals who apply for citizenship after discharge must present a DD Form 214, with service characterized as "Honorable," or "General." Those with other characterizations (including Entry Level Separation), are not eligible.
    Becoming a Citizen in the U.S. Military

    So, this isn't anything new and I'm fairly certain those who are claiming ignorance on the matter are very much aware of it. It's just fringe distain on an ideological front.

    EDIT: Just noticed that Montecresto and myself referenced the same 2002 EO issued by GWB on this matter. While "resident-alien" and "illegal alien" are different statuses, the criteria for U.S. citizenship status is much more stringent under the current plan issued from the Obama Administration than it was under the GWB Administration. Think about it...

    One day served whether in armed conflict or not then you can apply...

    Serve honorably during hostilities with the appropriate discharge then you can apply...

    I say if you're willing to wear the uniform, pick up a riffle and put yourself in harm's way in defense of this great nation, then you deserve the opportunity to become a naturalized U.S. citizen.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-07-14 at 01:45 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    As far as I know, ILLEGALS serving is new.
    Then perhaps you should read the Immigration and Naturalization law and familiarize yourself with the guidelines and the history towhich this thread pertains. And if you think this is something new or just something that came about during the current Obama Administration...

    By Executive Order Number 13269, dated July 3, 2002, President Bush declared that all those persons serving honorably in active-duty status in the Armed Forces of the United States at any time on or after September 11, 2001 until a date to be announced, are eligible to apply for naturalization in accordance with the service during hostilities statutory exception in Section 329 of the INA to the naturalization requirements. This means that individuals with even one day of honorable active duty service can apply for citizenship, regardless of how long they have been a resident. Note: Under this provision, individuals who apply for citizenship after discharge must present a DD Form 214, with service characterized as "Honorable," or "General." Those with other characterizations (including Entry Level Separation), are not eligible.
    Becoming a Citizen in the U.S. Military

    So, this isn't anything new and I'm fairly certain those who are claiming ignorance on the matter are very much aware of it. It's just fringe distain on an ideological front.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You gloss over the fine print: National conflict (i.e., "times of war or armed campaign") and "Honorable Discharge".

    If you're willing to put your life on the line in defense of this country during armed conflict or war when you don't have anything to gain except U.S. citizenship should you serve honorably and live through the conflict, you deserve to gain U.S. citizenship status. I know people who were born in America and have never served. Talk about "put up or shut up!"

    Your fear-mongering is truly un-necessary. If those who volunteer to serve under the guidelines of the program as summarized in the OP returned after having received an Honorable Discharge, why would you deny them the right of U.S. citizenship?
    Did you reply to the right post?

    This is a program to permit these folks to join the military and I see nothing in the article to indicate that they will be eligible for citizenship if they serve honorably or otherwise, so I didn't gloss over anything.

    There is also no guarantee that someone will be putting their life on the line although I'm sure there will be a number that will. Not all military positions involve combat, although it is certainly well known that it is possible.

    I would not deny these folks citizenship, it is the US government that does. As for fear-mongering, I'll await your reply to see if you replied to the correct post. I've done no such thing in any way, shape or form.

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