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Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

American said:
A "resident" is legal.
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Stop the foolishness, please. You're embarrassing yourself. INA law, section 329 reads:

Sec. 329. [8 U.S.C. 1440]

(a) Any person who, while an alien or a noncitizen national of the United States, has served honorably as a member of the Selected Reserve of the Ready Reserve or 1/ in an active-duty status in the military, air, or naval forces of the United States during either World War I or during a period beginning September 1, 1939, and ending December 31, 1946, or during a period beginning June 25, 1950, and ending July 1, 1955, or during a period beginning February 28, 1961, and ending on a date designated by the President by Executive order as the date of termination of the Vietnam hostilities, or thereafter during any other period which the President by Executive order shall designate as a period in which Armed Forces of the United States are or were engaged in military operations involving armed conflict with a hostile foreign force, and who, if separated from such service, was separated under honorable conditions, may be naturalized as provided in this section if (1) at the time of enlistment, reenlistment, extension of enlistment, 1/ or induction such person shall have been in the United States, the Canal Zone, America Samoa, or Swains Island, or on board a public vessel owned or operated by the United States for noncommercial service, 1/ whether or not he has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence, or (2) at any time subsequent to enlistment or induction such person shall have been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence. The executive department under which such person served shall determine whether persons have served honorably in an active-duty status, and whether separation from such service was under honorable conditions: Provided, however, That no person who is or has been separated from such service on account of alienage, or who was a conscientious objector who performed no military, air, or naval duty whatever or refused to wear the uniform, shall be regarded as having served honorably or having been separated under honorable conditions for the purposes of this section. No period of service in the Armed Forces shall be made the basis of a application for naturalization under this section if the applicant has previously been naturalized on the basis of the same period of service.
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But I'm willing to bet that even after reading this section of INA law you'll still argue against granting such individuals U.S. citizenship not based on the law, but based on your own ignorance and prejudice. Get over yourselves! This is something that's been in effect long before President Obama. But if you have a problem with it, write your Congressman.
 
TheNextEra said:
I agree, while it has been donein the past I don't think it has been done to the scale that the government wants to now which is dangerous IMO.
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1,500 a year is large scale to you? :shock: Wow! I'd hate to see what a flood of immigrants looks like then. :doh
 
Binary_Digit said:
It's not unheard of to have non-citizens serving in the military. When I was in the Navy, most of the AKs (Aviation Storekeepers) and MSs (Mess Specialists i.e. cooks) were non-citizen Phillipinos. They dominated those ratings because they were among the few jobs non-citizens were allowed to have. Now that I've looked it up, it turns out there are almost 40 NECs that non-citizens are qualified for:

Navy Jobs Available to Non-U.S. Citizens

If done right, this probably won't be a bad thing.

But it really irks me that government is focused on immigration to help pad the elections when there are much more important reforms that need to be done.
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American said:
Bingo!!!
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Then be upset that illegal immigrants are being used as political pawns, not because a select few would be allowed to go through a legal process granted them by law to gain U.S. citizenship status that's been in affect for decades.
 
Objective Voice said:
Yes. (See your post #62)



Then perhaps you should study-up on DHS DACA policy not to mention INA law, section 329.



True on both counts. There is no guarantee that anyone who puts their life on the line in defense of our country won't turn on us. But truth be told there have been far more instances of U.S. citizens turning against their homeland from Benedict Arnold to Edward Snowden than the reverse. So, your concern though warranted isn't a strong valid argument. Also, you're correct again in that not every military position involves combat. Those aliens (resident or otherwise) who would participate under the Military Accessions in the National Interest program would largely be linguist not combatants. But you'd be foolish to think that we've never had foreign linguist go on SpecOp assignments during any of our foreign wars.



You're being petty here. Of course YOU wouldn't be personally denying anyone U.S. citizenship status, but I'm willing to be that if you could stamp their paperwork with "REJECTED" or "DENIED" in big, fat red letters you'd do it in a heartbeat!



Again, see your post #62.
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It does seem as though through a number of steps that they have created a very small, winding path to citizenship. Of course, I'd be interested to know how many people are really in these categories:

1. The applicant must be in one of the following categories at time of enlistment
a. asylee, refugee, Temporary Protected Status (TPS), or
b. nonimmigrant categories E, F, H, I, J, K, L, M, O, P, Q, R, S, T, TC, TD, TN, U, or V

Maybe a few of those in the P-1 category might be really helpful.

You make so many assumptions about how hateful and fear-mongering you think I am. I've said and done no such thing, but I will not stand idle and be your personal straw man.
 
iliveonramen said:
These people have nothing and are coming to the US to improve their lives and are only asking for the same rights your grandparents received. The US immigration policy when your grandparents came over made it VERY easy for someone of European descent to gain citizenship. They benefited from their access to this country, why on earth would you deny someone willing to enlist in the armed forces for getting the same benefits as your grandparents? Why are they different? The same things you're saying now was leveled at people like your grandparents when European immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Eastern Europe were coming over.
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They start off breaking the law. Seems to me it would make background checks and clearances a nightmare.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
It does seem as though through a number of steps that they have created a very small, winding path to citizenship. Of course, I'd be interested to know how many people are really in these categories:

1. The applicant must be in one of the following categories at time of enlistment
a. asylee, refugee, Temporary Protected Status (TPS), or
b. nonimmigrant categories E, F, H, I, J, K, L, M, O, P, Q, R, S, T, TC, TD, TN, U, or V

Maybe a few of those in the P-1 category might be really helpful.

You make so many assumptions about how hateful and fear-mongering you think I am. I've said and done no such thing, but I will not stand idle and be your personal straw man.
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Very well then...truce called. :mrgreen:
 
The prize tag is: US citizenship.
 
Objective Voice said:
1,500 a year is large scale to you? :shock: Wow! I'd hate to see what a flood of immigrants looks like then. :doh
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1500 a year in the military without proper vetting, yeah that is a BIG deal. Sorry you can't see that.
 
Objective Voice said:
Then be upset that illegal immigrants are being used as political pawns, not because a select few would be allowed to go through a legal process granted them by law to gain U.S. citizenship status that's been in affect for decades.
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What law gives illegal aliens citizenship?
 
Objective Voice said:
1,500 a year is large scale to you? :shock: Wow! I'd hate to see what a flood of immigrants looks like then. :doh
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Maybe if you cared less about getting Democrat votes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
Which means the Pentagon is preparing another ground war and they need some Cannon fodder .
 
iliveonramen said:
Well to be clear the program is only open to undocumented immigrants who came with their parents to the US before they were 16.
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My background checks involved interviews with people that knew me when I was 12. I had to submit a package that went back from birth to current, including elementary school class pictures. Granted...my clearances are TSSCI level and beyond...still...

and frankly...if people knew what level of clearance investigations are going on in just the child care provider realm right now for the Army it would blow their mind. Its an overreaction...but still pretty crazy. There is no such thing as a sealed juvenile record for some of these checks.
 
obamaPoster.jpg
 
American said:
Maybe if you cared less about getting Democrat votes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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This isn't about currying votes one way or another for me. I don't view this issue in that context although I can certainly see how many may come away with that perspective. For me, it's about staying true to our values while also adhering to our laws. Therefore, if we value national defense, risk, commitment and personal sacrifice, and we say we are a nation of laws how then can we ignore applying this section of our immigration law (329) to those who fit the eligibility criteria?

Again, I say to you if you don't like it stop trying to convince me to adopt your point of view start writing your Congressman to change the law.
 
American said:
What law gives illegal aliens citizenship?
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We've already been over this. No law grants any foreign born national U.S citizenship. You have to do something to earn it. Thus, for the last time READ INA LAW and at least try to understand what the program as summarized in the OP is about before flying off the handle over ideological BS.
 
Objective Voice said:
We've already been over this. No law grants any foreign born national U.S citizenship. You have to do something to earn it. Thus, for the last time READ INA LAW and at least try to understand what the program as summarized in the OP is about before flying off the handle over ideological BS.
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The way I read it, you have to be a legal resident first, then if you serve they give you citizenship.
 
My team has used MAVNIs a couple times in the past on a few trips to Asia. One worked out great the guy was a former Lt Col in his native country's army and knew how to get things done in a very inefficient country. The other moved to the US as a little kid and was not very useful at all. He could score high on his language proficiency test but for what ever reason just could not get across the concepts we were teaching. One of the soldiers we were training spoke English very well and we ended up using him as a terp instead of our MAVNI. So I guess it just depends on who they let in the program as to how much I support it.

On a side not did anyone else notice their is no V in the words used to make up the acronym MAVNI. Our good MAVNI told us it stood for Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest. That was a few years ago though so who knows.
 
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