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Thread: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

  1. #181
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Which has zero to do with the post I just asked. If you want to debate about the "boston blackskins" or the reason it's not being changed or whatever else I'll be happy to do it...but not as a means of simply deflecting from having to either back up the information you previously posted or acknowledging that it's a very questionable bit of information.
    Go back and read my post. I merely posted a study. If you have credible questions about it, fire away.
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    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
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  2. #182
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I asked if it was in jest first and chalked it up as likely being just that. When you continued to rely on that as seemingly your only real answer to the questions or concerns I raiesd in my post I had little option but to believe it was NOT meant in jest.
    Fine. Then I apologize.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
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  3. #183
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Now I'm going to have to start using FedEx more often! Screw Standing Bear. Get your ass off the idiotic reservation and join the 21st century.
    Why? Seriously, why support something that is offensive to some? Historically there is no debate that the term was offensive, and it carries a clear history. Why not just be a decent human being and stop being stubborn?

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  4. #184
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    My position on this is reasonably simple. We both know that if the name "Boston Blackskins" or some such derivation was around, it would be changed. Just as if the Washington Whiteskins would be changed.

    The only reason the name isn't getting changed is money. I suspect we can agree to that.
    I'm curious - what is the history of the "Blackskins" and "Whiteskins" in American sports? I'm a pretty big fan of sports, and I'm getting kinda old, but I don't remember the illustrious history of these franchises. Can you fill me in.
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  5. #185
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Any system can be environmentally sound, what was not sustainable was the population of Bison. The natural system was greatly disturbed as evidenced by the population explosion resulting from the death of many NAs.
    That doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, there are definitely practices and systems which can not be environmentally sound but that's besides the point. We're talking about a specific situation here.

    Mainly, I think it's odd to criticize a system because it stopped working after something drastically altered the system (by killing most NA's). Any system stops working if you destroy the components of the system.

    Pretending NAs were any more environmentally aware than the next populace is nonsense. They exploited their environment to the extent possible, just like everyone else.
    I didn't say anything about that but I will say that that, being a non-scientific people, they did not have the knowledge or awareness of how natural systems work in detail and their practices, in some cases, did result in environmental degradation sometimes to the point of environmental collapse. And of course they did "exploit" their environment. Everyone does or they don't eat.

    However, they did recognize the need for sustaining the environment, even if they didn't have the tools to ensure that goal was met.
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Go back and read my post. I merely posted a study. If you have credible questions about it, fire away.
    I read your post. You didn't post a study. You posted a click-baiting news aggregator that had a story about a press release about a poll that's never been released publicly online.

    I fired off my credible questions already.

    What was the methodology used in this poll?

    What was the margin of error in this poll?

    Did the method of gathering respondents adhere to the standards of scientific polling?

    Is the presentation that this is representative of "native americans" as a whole, as opposed to a very specific subset of native americans, accurate based on the methodology?

  7. #187
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, there are definitely practices and systems which can not be environmentally sound but that's besides the point.
    Even flat-out over-exploitation can work with a small enough population capable of moving throughout a region.

    We're talking about a specific situation here.
    One which I've formally studied.

    Mainly, I think it's odd to criticize a system because it stopped working after something drastically altered the system (by killing most NA's). Any system stops working if you destroy the components of the system.
    A system should be resilient and adaptive. This is achieved through diversity. The removal of a single species does not collapse a robust system.

    I didn't say anything about that but I will say that that, being a non-scientific people, they did not have the knowledge or awareness of how natural systems work in detail and their practices, in some cases, did result in environmental degradation sometimes to the point of environmental collapse. And of course they did "exploit" their environment. Everyone does or they don't eat.
    NAs were just as destructive to the environment as any other people in similar geographic circumstances during that era. Claiming they had a special bond with the Earth and took care of it better than others is Noble Savage.

    However, they did recognize the need for sustaining the environment, even if they didn't have the tools to ensure that goal was met.
    No more so than any other group in similar circumstances.

  8. #188
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why? Seriously, why support something that is offensive to some? Historically there is no debate that the term was offensive, and it carries a clear history. Why not just be a decent human being and stop being stubborn?
    Nobody has a right not to be offended. Free speech always overrides offense. They can just grow up.
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    The most reasonable answer to what percentage of native americans find the Washington Redskins need to change the name is probably the one used by the patent office, and even that has a LOT of issues.

    The patent office pointed to the National Congress of American Indians coming out against the name. The NCAI represents roughly 1/3 of all recognized tribes in the United States. The patent office used this to suggest that roughly a third of native americans were against the names use by the Washington Redskins.

    HOWEVER...

    Even that has three main issues. First, not all native americans belong to a federally recognized tribe or any tribe at all. Second, while it represents 1/3rd of all recognized tribes that doesn't necessarily equate to representing 1/3rd of all the population because tribes can be disparate in size. Third, much like its unreasonable to suggest resolutions and laws by the United States Congress represent the view of every single citizen that they preside over, so too is it unreasonable to suggest the NCAI's view speaks for every single native american within a tribe that it represents.

    On the flip side, undoubtably there are likely some native americans in tribes NOT represented by the NCAI that have an issue with the name.

    So I would probably personally put the number somewhere between 9% and 33% feel that the name needs to be changed.

  10. #190
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    Re: Tribal chief: No FedEx until Redskins change team name

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nobody has a right not to be offended. Free speech always overrides offense. They can just grow up.
    Offense has nothing to do with legislation. It would be stupid to presume offense as the basis of any legislation. Legislation is a matter of limiting harm to society.

    Racial stereotyping (even "positive" stereotypes) harm society. It does not matter whom is offended, that's a fact. That fact, and not any BS offense crying, is the basis of changing the name.


    To review:

    1. Only stupid people believe offense is a basis for ethical action.
    2. Racial stereotypes harm society by marginalizing those left out.

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