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No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

Did Walmart sell him that airgun? I didnt see that confirmed.
But the man, to me, seemed mentally ill. It seriously contributed to his death. Was this apparent to a Walmart salesperson if/when he purchased the airgun?
(Even the cops cant ascertain this sort of thing much of the time...are we now asking Walmart sales staff to do so?)


He didn't purchase it, he picked it up off the shelf because Walmart sells them off the shelf. ALL stores that sell airsoft guns have them on their shelves. The only requirement to purchase one is to be 18, which they may or may not check when you actually purchase it - you know after you carry it through the store to the register.
 
Do you believe the young man would have been walking about with the gun if it had been in a box (let alone wrapped)?

This man didnt appear to be acting in a rational manner.

Why wouldnt he be interested in the instant gratification of taking it out of a box (if he could) and playing with it? Again, it's hard to assign him general rational behavior from what I observed.
 
He didn't purchase it, he picked it up off the shelf because Walmart sells them off the shelf. ALL stores that sell airsoft guns have them on their shelves. The only requirement to purchase one is to be 18, which they may or may not check when you actually purchase it - you know after you carry it through the store to the register.
It wasn't an airsoft gun, it was a .177 caliber pellet rifle. It fires a metal projectile, and has a rifled barrel. An airsoft gun fires a plastic bb.
 
A kid getting access to an air rifle, then loading a pellet in it, and shooting it, is not as easy as one might think. The pellets are wrapped up pretty well, and not usually easy to get into, and the gun is boxed. THen there's the matter of many kids not having a clue as to how to load and shoot one.

Loading them is actually kind of a PIA and annoying if you are used to shooting other types of guns, lol.
 
It wasn't an airsoft gun, it was a .177 caliber pellet rifle. It fires a metal projectile, and has a rifled barrel. An airsoft gun fires a plastic bb.

My bad, but the point remains he didn't have to purchase it because it was already on the shelf, although they are no longer doing that at that particular Walmart.

Beavercreek Walmart no longer selling air rifles | Dayton, OH | www.whio.com

A number of BB and pellet guns, including those that mimic the appearance of automatic rifles, remained on shelves Friday at Walmart stores in Moraine and Butler Twp., following a check by reporters
 
He didn't purchase it, he picked it up off the shelf because Walmart sells them off the shelf. ALL stores that sell airsoft guns have them on their shelves. The only requirement to purchase one is to be 18, which they may or may not check when you actually purchase it - you know after you carry it through the store to the register.

Thank you. I got mine at Cabelas. I think there were display models out and boxes of them we took up to the register. I guess anyone could have opened the box and grabbed pellets and loaded up.

Probably all stores should reassess how these are displayed now...altho really...knives and other dangerous items are out where they can easily be used to harm.

Not to minimize the sales issue...but IMO the real problem is mental illness.
 
My bad, but the point remains he didn't have to purchase it because it was already on the shelf, although they are no longer doing that at that particular Walmart.

Beavercreek Walmart no longer selling air rifles | Dayton, OH | www.whio.com

They are on the shelf, but are usually packaged in a box. Someone had removed this particular gun from its packaging. When Crawford picked this gun up, he went straight to it without hesitation, picked it up, and walked away with it. He didn't check it out at all. It appears to me, he already knew it was sitting there out of the packaging.
 
I missed this...where did you read this?

Did he pick up an airgun that was out on display?

It's in the video shown at the hearing for the officers the other day.
 
It is quite possible that the person is/was impaired in some way.



Nope, video had the entire approach and sound.

I agree he looked impaired.

Which video showed the approach and had the entire (how do we know if he was in audio range) extent of his verbal warnings of the cop that shot him? I didnt see that one.
 
The only thing that the caller got correct was that he guy was swinging the gun. The video does not show that he even once pointed that gun at anyone or that he was loading it. It should be noted that you load a pellet gun far differently than you do a real gun....at least last I knew. I do admit its been awhile since I loaded one and they may have changed it.

You dont know if he was pointing it at people when he pointed it at a 90 degree angle to the camera. It also looked to me like he pointed it in the camera's direction and we saw some people in that area but not all may have been visible on camera.

And it looked to me like he was struggling to load it...and it can be a PIA to load an airgun. Esp. if he didnt know how. I could not tell if he was successful.
 
Please point out one fact from the video that supports your perception.

Why do you need facts when I said he 'appeared?' This is from my perspective watching:

His standing in Walmart fumbling with a gun, his actions looked inept and aimless, even confused, and I can not think of any reasons why an adult in the proper frame of mind would do what he was doing. There may be some. None come to mind.

I dont have his medical records, blood or urine test results (post or pre-mortem), or psychiatric profile.
 
I agree that it's relevant but would the police be aware of policy? Would they have been informed/had time to find out?

I dunno, but it seems they presumed the weapon came from outside. It doesn't seem an extensive attempt was made to ID the weapon. If they had reason to believe it was an air gun off the shelf, a closer examination of the weapon would reveal such. I'd guess the easiest place to look is the magazine, but someone trained to look for such would know other parts that would indicate such.

I would guess, by the store policy and the actions of the police, that there was a bad assumption made regarding the origin of the gun; an assumption that precluded a more vigorous attempt to ID the gun.


Did Walmart sell him that airgun? I didnt see that confirmed.

While it appears I am as uninformed about the event as you (see my earlier posts a bit above), my understanding is the gun was left out of the box, against policy that air guns be in boxes and wrapped.

While someone argued that keeping the air guns in boxes and wrapped is merely a matter of theft prevention, I think it's also obviously to prevent children from picking one up and playing with it.


So many different sub-events lead to the tragedy.

1. Someone picked up an air gun that should have been in a box and wrapped instead of open and inviting examination.
2. That someone was not a kid but an adult.
3. 911 calls were inaccurate.
3a. Acting aggressive (perhaps an understandable mis-perception)
3b. Loading the weapon. - This gives another reason to presume it's not an air gun.
4. When told to drop the weapon, the person seems to have suffered confusion.


Those and other things lead to a situation in which someone might have thought they were being (improperly) arrested for shoplifting when, in fact and reasonably, the cops were in fear of life.

So many things could have gone differently, throughout the course of sub-events, I don't get trying to blame the cops.
 
Actually, we do know that it was the only "Drop the gun" yelled by the cops.

Actually, we don't. Our audio comes solely from the 911 call being synced with the video surveillance. That means that anything that was happening further than about 20 or 30 feet from the guy on the phone would be hard to hear. Even just a few feet from him would get muffled more and more. It is possible that officers from the other direction told him to drop the gun before the one we hear in the audio.
 
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Actually, the recording contradicts much of what he reported. particularly the most threatening sounding claims (e he loaded the weapon, he pointed it at two children)

Looked like he could have been attempting to load it to me. And since we cant see off camera, it's hard to say he didnt point it at anyone. The caller may have been able to see those things better than the video.
 
I dunno, but it seems they presumed the weapon came from outside. It doesn't seem an extensive attempt was made to ID the weapon. If they had reason to believe it was an air gun off the shelf, a closer examination of the weapon would reveal such. I'd guess the easiest place to look is the magazine, but someone trained to look for such would know other parts that would indicate such.

I would guess, by the store policy and the actions of the police, that there was a bad assumption made regarding the origin of the gun; an assumption that precluded a more vigorous attempt to ID the gun.

While it appears I am as uninformed about the event as you (see my earlier posts a bit above), my understanding is the gun was left out of the box, against policy that air guns be in boxes and wrapped.

While someone argued that keeping the air guns in boxes and wrapped is merely a matter of theft prevention, I think it's also obviously to prevent children from picking one up and playing with it.

Thanks. Someone answered it for me.
 
Police are trained to assess a situation based on the facts they observe and not believe and rely on reports that are called in.

Walmart didn't sell him the gun. If Walmart is sued, it will be because the gun was not boxed.

As far as Crawford being mentally ill, there is no evidence that he was nor was his behavior indicative of mental illness.

Well then when they see a gun, they will assume it is loaded.

Yes, I've been told now that the airgun was available.

That is your opinion....not mine...regarding his behavior.
 
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Why do you need facts when I said he 'appeared?'

Because when you talk about how something appeared, you're referring to something you saw or heard.

This is from my perspective watching:

His standing in Walmart fumbling with a gun, his actions looked inept and aimless, even confused, and I can not think of any reasons why an adult in the proper frame of mind would do what he was doing. There may be some. None come to mind.

I noticed you don't state anything specific that he did. What "fumbling" are you talking about? What specific actions of his looked inept or aimless or confused. What specifically did he do that no other adult in their proper frame of mind would do?

And why does confusion, fumbling, ineptness suggest mental illness to you? There are plenty of people who are not mentally ill who are inept, confused, aimless, etc at times.
 
Please point out one fact from the video that supports your perception.

Look at my first post. I had no idea the guy was on the phone until after reading more about this. And what conversation keeps a person in the same place for over 5 minutes, swinging a gun back and forth. He didn't even appear to pick up anything from the shelves. This was odd behavior. Is that something to get shot for? No. But it does kind of add to where confusion about the situation can come from.

I've gotten the look before of "what is wrong with this person" while talking on my phone using a hands free device when they first came out. The woman at the coffee counter thought I was nuts because I was talking to my mom without any obvious signs that I was using a cell phone.
 
Looked like he could have been attempting to load it to me. And since we cant see off camera, it's hard to say he didnt point it at anyone. The caller may have been able to see those things better than the video.

I agree about the loading. I shouldn't have included that. But if you watch the video with the audio, the caller claims that Crawford "just pointed the gun at like two children". The video shows that when the caller said this, Crawford was and had been motionless.
 
Because when you talk about how something appeared, you're referring to something you saw or heard.

I noticed you don't state anything specific that he did. What "fumbling" are you talking about? What specific actions of his looked inept or aimless or confused. What specifically did he do that no other adult in their proper frame of mind would do?

And why does confusion, fumbling, ineptness suggest mental illness to you? There are plenty of people who are not mentally ill who are inept, confused, aimless, etc at times.

My my my. I'm getting the third degree here. I'm not playing. If you dont like my 'opinion' and my statements on what I saw, you can ignore them.

I also said possibly 'impaired.' I did not, nor do I now, consider his actions seen on the video as remotely the normal actions of an adult in a retail store.
 
Well then when they see a gun, they will assume it is loaded.

Yes, I've been told now that the airgun was available.

That is your opinion....not mine...regarding his behavior.

I didn't ask what your opinion is. I already know what your opinion is because you stated it

I asked what facts your opinion is based on. Specifically, which specific actions of Crawford's suggest mental illness.
 
I agree about the loading. I shouldn't have included that. But if you watch the video with the audio, the caller claims that Crawford "just pointed the gun at like two children". The video shows that when the caller said this, Crawford was and had been motionless.

He may have seen something wrong. We just don't know what kind of view he had. Plus, people do get things wrong. Our brains can convince us we see things that didn't actually happen, only what we think is happening or might have happened. This is why eyewitness accounts of events are being seen as less reliable than they have been in the past. People aren't necessarily lying about what they saw, because they believe they saw it, they just really didn't.
 
Look at my first post. I had no idea the guy was on the phone until after reading more about this. And what conversation keeps a person in the same place for over 5 minutes, swinging a gun back and forth. He didn't even appear to pick up anything from the shelves. This was odd behavior. Is that something to get shot for? No. But it does kind of add to where confusion about the situation can come from.

I see that sort of thing in stores all the time. Someone on the phone with their spouse asking which brand of toilet paper to buy, etc
 
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