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No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

Are you unaware of varying levels of threat that people can feel? You don't have to feel that you are personally in imminent danger of losing your life to still feel threatened. Life isn't black or white, no matter how much you may want it to be. She didn't go back or allow her children to go back to the area. She didn't stay in the garden section long enough to have intended to go there before seeing the guy, so it is obvious that it is the guy with the gun that prompted her to go there to begin with. We don't know why she went back in the store, possibly because she wasn't getting any help from the staff, no one else seemed to care, maybe she couldn't find anyone else that could deal with it, maybe they said they knew about him already and that alleviated enough fear for her to return to the store, but walk away from the man. We simply don't know. But saying that she didn't see him or wasn't worried/threatened by him at all is not the case from what is in that video.


Do you feel threatened when your wife is cutting onions?

could a person shoot you? yes...... Could a person stab you?

Funny how people are relaxed around deadly weapons unless its a gun.
 
Do you feel threatened when your wife is cutting onions?

could a person shoot you? yes...... Could a person stab you?

Funny how people are relaxed around deadly weapons unless its a gun.

I have a husband, not a wife. And there is also a difference between a person we know and trust and a stranger who has a weapon. I am not "relaxed" around most deadly weapons, especially when I don't know the person using them, for many reasons, depending on the person who has it. I would feel threatened by someone who was walking around a WalMart with a knife, swinging it casually around. Even friends can accidentally shoot you or just hurt you with a knife or other weapon. I've known someone who was shot in the neck by a friend who was getting ready to clean his guns. I've known people who were cut while trying to get another person loose from rotating equipment. These are times when those people trusted those others completely with the deadly weapons and still got injured. We know the intent of our friends and loved ones, most of the time. We don't know the intent of strangers, especially not when they have weapons in places where we don't expect to see them, aren't used to seeing them. And people tend to notice things that are "out of place" to them. We are also being trained to notice things that look suspicious. Even public buses say to tell the driver or contact someone if you see something suspicious, especially unattended bags. The military practically drills it into us.

Heck, I noticed the guy who had 20 something rolls, different sizes and colors, of duct tape and was weary of getting too close to him. I tend to be a worrier. But I'm also pretty practical about my worries. I would try to find someone who worked there at the store if I saw someone with either a knife or a gun out, waving it around. I would inform them. Depending on the person, I might call the police if I saw anything suspicious about them and didn't think the employees were doing what they should be doing, such as they were threatening or yelling at other people or doing something aggressive even if not toward other people at that time. I would likely do it if they were merely talking to themselves or saying things out loud that made absolutely no sense. I wouldn't stay in the area with a person who had either. I would definitely stay away from and keep my kids away from that person. That doesn't mean that I would immediately run off screaming or get hysterical about it.

I'm not saying that anyone should have necessarily called the cops on this guy just for having a gun, but not everyone views threats the same as everyone else does. And not everyone is going to behave the same way given a situation like this.
 
It should be noted that the cops didn't really give time for the guy to drop the gun. They said drop it, then shot. Maybe 2 seconds in between the words and the shooting. It would take that long at least for the brain to process such information of what was being said and what the guy was seeing into action. You can hear in the video the cops telling the guy to drop it and see the result of what happened after those words were said. I believe that the cops didn't give the guy enough time to actually drop the air gun. That said I don't blame the cops either as noted in a previous post.

For me, 2 seconds would be plenty. By the second second, the baby would be on the ground.

But seriously, we don't know if that was the only "drop it" said/yelled by the cops.
 
For me, 2 seconds would be plenty. By the second second, the baby would be on the ground.

But seriously, we don't know if that was the only "drop it" said/yelled by the cops.

Actually, we do know that it was the only "Drop the gun" yelled by the cops.
 
Actually, we do know that it was the only "Drop the gun" yelled by the cops.

While I was away from the thread, audio was obtained covering the entire approach?
 
For me, 2 seconds would be plenty. By the second second, the baby would be on the ground.

Easy to say...bet you not nearly as easy to do.

But seriously, we don't know if that was the only "drop it" said/yelled by the cops.

Actually we do. Its right there in the video.
 
Easy to say...bet you not nearly as easy to do.

Point being, it's strange for someone to have confusion with cops pointing guns and barking commands. I've explained my speculation regarding this, specifically that the man was not of full capacity (naturally or otherwise) and perhaps he thought he was being arrested for shoplifting instead of understanding the cops were in fear of life.

Actually we do. Its right there in the video.

I was under the impression that the video did not include audio and did not include the entire approach. If it does, then I cannot offer an explanation as to why the cops would wait until the last moment to yell "drop it" instead of doing so during the approach.
 
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Point being, it's strange for someone to have confusion with cops pointing guns and barking commands. I've explained my speculation regarding this, specifically that the man was not of full capacity (naturally or otherwise) and perhaps he thought he was being arrested for shoplifting instead of understanding the cops were in fear of life.

It is quite possible that the person is/was impaired in some way.

I was under the impression that the video did not include audio and did not include the entire approach. If it does, then I cannot offer an explanation as to why the cops would wait until the last moment to yell "drop it" instead of doing so during the approach.

Nope, video had the entire approach and sound.
 
Didn't we pass a law a while back where all air rifles that look even remotely "assault like" have orange tips? I'm not sure how you miss that...

Got mine at Cabela's and it doesnt have an orange tip.
 
They wouldn't have. I was talking about wishing the caller could get some kind of false police report charge since he was falsely reporting details that were proven wrong by the surveillance camera.


How do you know he didnt report exactly what he saw? Everything or at least most of what he said was borne out by the tape...the man's activity, pointing at specific people, etc.

Incorrectly identifying the type of (real) fun didnt mean he falsified anything.
 
Do you think in this case it was? To me it looked like he blatantly misrepresented the facts when he said said the guy was reloading and pointing guns at children when the surveillance shows otherwise.

I saw him do all those things...or at least *I believe* I did.
 
How do you know he didnt report exactly what he saw? Everything or at least most of what he said was borne out by the tape...the man's activity, pointing at specific people, etc.

Incorrectly identifying the type of (real) fun didnt mean he falsified anything.

The only thing that the caller got correct was that he guy was swinging the gun. The video does not show that he even once pointed that gun at anyone or that he was loading it. It should be noted that you load a pellet gun far differently than you do a real gun....at least last I knew. I do admit its been awhile since I loaded one and they may have changed it.
 
That's a real weapon... not the toy the guy was carrying.

It was a weapon capable of killing an adult with one shot...and has in the past.
 
I saw him do all those things...or at least *I believe* I did.

Point out the exact second on the surveillance that he does point or reload anything. I, and several other posters, have already done second by second analysis showing at no point was either of those actions done.
 
Didn't we pass a law a while back where all air rifles that look even remotely "assault like" have orange tips? I'm not sure how you miss that...


I don't know why people insist on perpetuating this lame meme. Toy guns have orange tips, real guns do not. Why is this concept so difficult for some to grasp? No law was passed concerning real guns and orange tips. I can draw you a picture if you like.
 
How do you know he didnt report exactly what he saw? Everything or at least most of what he said was borne out by the tape...the man's activity, pointing at specific people, etc.

Actually, the recording contradicts much of what he reported. particularly the most threatening sounding claims (e he loaded the weapon, he pointed it at two children)
 
According to the article, the gun was supposed to be wrapped (shrink wrap?) and in its box. It was not, it was sitting out in the open which is against store policy.

We don't know if the young man would have opened a box and removed the wrapping, but I'm guessing he would not have.

I don't get why it is important for you to ignore this factor.

I agree that it's relevant but would the police be aware of policy? Would they have been informed/had time to find out?
 
Mischaracterizing my argument is weaksauce, particularly when I've clearly stated my argument.

At no point did the man threaten the officers or anyone in the store. If he isn't a threat, there's no reason to shoot.

And by the way, you're ignoring the simple fact that even if he was carrying a loaded weapon, he has to the right too in Ohio.

If that airgun was loaded, it was a threat.

How could the police know if it was or wasnt? If they were informed by 911 then the info they got was that it was loaded and it had been pointed at people (a threat).
 
It's difficult enough, and against the rules, to dissuade someone of limited capacity (for whatever reason) from attempting to do so. The gun being easily available presumably contributed to the tragedy. Wanna bet, Walmart gets sued?

Did Walmart sell him that airgun? I didnt see that confirmed.

But the man, to me, seemed mentally ill. It seriously contributed to his death. Was this apparent to a Walmart salesperson if/when he purchased the airgun?

(Even the cops cant ascertain this sort of thing much of the time...are we now asking Walmart sales staff to do so?)
 
If that airgun was loaded, it was a threat.

How could the police know if it was or wasnt? If they were informed by 911 then the info they got was that it was loaded and it had been pointed at people (a threat).

Police are trained to assess a situation based on the facts they observe and not believe and rely on reports that are called in.

Did Walmart sell him that airgun? I didnt see that confirmed.

But the man, to me, seemed mentally ill. It seriously contributed to his death. Was this apparent to a Walmart salesperson if/when he purchased the airgun?

(Even the cops cant ascertain this sort of thing much of the time...are we now asking Walmart sales staff to do so?)

Walmart didn't sell him the gun. If Walmart is sued, it will be because the gun was not boxed.

As far as Crawford being mentally ill, there is no evidence that he was nor was his behavior indicative of mental illness.
 
Are you really trying to argue that not following an anti-theft policy is a safety hazard?

Well it seems so in this case, as it got the guy killed. Not only that, if he did load it as claimed, he was a safety hazard to others. The man IMO was mentally ill.

May I ask...completely neutrally...was it confirmed he bought the airgun at that Walmart that day?
 
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