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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which guy didn't have a hand on the gun? Both the guy in the third video and the guy who got shot and killed in WalMart were touching the gun. The guy in the video you posted can not be proven to only be harassed because he is black. Where did this take place? When? What sort of area is it? What is the racial makeup? The crime statistics? Does anyone in the area know the guy? What if it was a white guy doing the same thing, carrying an AR-15 in that area (first) rather than a black guy? Do you know what would have happened or are you only speculating? Have no white guys ever been harassed, even arrested for openly carrying an AR15 or some other weapon?

    Just a few years back, a white woman was harassed, I believe by the cops but I know by the park, for having her holstered weapon at her son's soccer game. They revoked her CCP for it.
    Come on. You can't support the guys in Walmart with their ARs then nitpick the video. At least try to be consistent.

    And what difference does it make about the area, crime stats, racial makeup? We do know all the cops are white! And you can only open carry your small private part compensation device in a white, safe neighborhood? You're making the videographer's point for him.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I suppose, and I'm including myself, you see what you want to see. When he's swinging the gun, no one is in front of him. It's not like he's facing down the aisle, and with kids in the direction he's facing, the gun is swinging back and forth in a way that points the muzzle at the kids. He's facing the shelf.

    And I've said many times I think the cops mishandled this, but I can understand why - it was a perfect storm of a customer picking up a product off the shelf in a store that sells them, and it's a pellet gun, a delusional caller, and a trigger happy police force who based on the caller had them believing they were confronting a mad man. I understand WHY, and I am not at all sure I'd have indicted the police officer, but that's different than blaming the victim and absolving the police of any of their (to me obvious) mistakes, mainly not giving the guy even a remote chance to comply with the order to put down the gun.
    Do you realize a high powered rifle can easily shoot through the shelving and merchandise? Do you realize bullets can ricochet?

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I suppose, and I'm including myself, you see what you want to see. When he's swinging the gun, no one is in front of him. It's not like he's facing down the aisle, and with kids in the direction he's facing, the gun is swinging back and forth in a way that points the muzzle at the kids. He's facing the shelf.

    And I've said many times I think the cops mishandled this, but I can understand why - it was a perfect storm of a customer picking up a product off the shelf in a store that sells them, and it's a pellet gun, a delusional caller, and a trigger happy police force who based on the caller had them believing they were confronting a mad man. I understand WHY, and I am not at all sure I'd have indicted the police officer, but that's different than blaming the victim and absolving the police of any of their (to me obvious) mistakes, mainly not giving the guy even a remote chance to comply with the order to put down the gun.
    The victim did have some culpability here. It isn't totally his fault at all. It is a combination of factors that just resulted in a terrible and tragic ending. But he does hold some of the blame, along with the caller and even the cops a little bit. But since there is no way to determine who is most to blame and if someone in the situation did anything that could be considered "criminal", then no charges should be filed.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Do you realize a high powered rifle can easily shoot through the shelving and merchandise? Do you realize bullets can ricochet?
    Of course, but if that's what someone's worried about, then it's him demonstrating he's incompetent to properly handle a firearm, not an imminent threat that requires IMMEDIATE deadly force.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The victim did have some culpability here. It isn't totally his fault at all. It is a combination of factors that just resulted in a terrible and tragic ending. But he does hold some of the blame, along with the caller and even the cops a LOT. But since there is no way to determine who is most to blame and if someone in the situation did anything that could be considered "criminal", then no charges should be filed.
    Other than the small, bolded correction, I agree.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Come on. You can't support the guys in Walmart with their ARs then nitpick the video. At least try to be consistent.

    And what difference does it make about the area, crime stats, racial makeup? We do know all the cops are white! And you can only open carry your small private part compensation device in a white, safe neighborhood? You're making the videographer's point for him.
    I wouldn't have a problem with someone telling the guy in WalMart with the AR that he shouldn't be there. I don't approve of having those things out in public like that, showing them off as if they are a toy or as if you are paranoid that Armageddon will break out within so little time that you need something like that to protect you every second of the day. I find it immature and absolutely not being a responsible gun owner. The most responsible gun owner I saw (just from the pics) was the guy pumping gas. Absolutely nothing wrong with what he was doing. He is a responsible gun owner, not showing off, just having a gun for personal protection. And that doesn't scream "I'm a paranoid ****", "look at my big gun", or "let's see if I can set some people up to harass me so I can claim that it is due to xxx factor instead of me just being an asshole".

    And in fact, I'm not saying that the guy walking down the road with the AR should have been arrested just because of that. I'm saying though that it was a setup, which is obvious from the video and the reaction. And I'm saying that there is absolutely no need to have something like that out in the open for "protection". Is it a person's right to have it? Absolutely. But just like freedom of speech, some people should grow up and act responsibly with those rights.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Other than the small, bolded correction, I agree.
    No. The cops did not do "a lot" wrong. They were basing their reaction off of the information they had and a guy who could have been a threat. They did not have any information that told them otherwise for this situation, at the time.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course, but if that's what someone's worried about, then it's him demonstrating he's incompetent to properly handle a firearm, not an imminent threat that requires IMMEDIATE deadly force.
    Mishandling a high powered rifle in a crowded public area isn't an imminent threat?

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    He doesn't even have a hand on the gun. Hard to shoot with a packiage of cookies in your hand, or without handling the gun itself, wouldn't you think?
    As for red flags, it was the lack of awareness, and the lack of concern/carelessness with handling the "gun" that are the red flags. If you saw someone in Walmart holding what you thought was a rifle, and he displayed a lack of concern, or a lack of the ability to safely handle it, you would pretty likely be worried. I am very familiar with firearms, and I know that I would have been. If I see you walking around holding what I think is a rifle, and I think your finger is on the trigger, I am going to be zoning in on you like a laser.
    Since someone who about to shoot someone would have some concern for how their handling the gun, someone who displays no concern would lead me to suspect that he was not about to shoot someone

    I would worry about his stupidity, but I'm always on the lookout for stupid people. They don't need a gun to hurt someone

    BTW, since when is "worried" a justification for shooting someone?
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Mishandling a high powered rifle in a crowded public area isn't an imminent threat?
    Let's try this again, with more emphasis: "not an imminent threat that requires IMMEDIATE deadly force."

    I was at a charity dove hunt two weeks ago and saw several people mishandling their shotguns. The response one near me got was, (paraphrased) - "Don't swing on low birds a******. Watch what you're doing!" No one called the SWAT team....

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