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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Put it down means put it down. Period. Anything short of that is still a threat.
    Sure, but the person has to have a realistic chance to 1) hear the command, 2) process it, 3) act on it. I can't see how anyone can watch the tape and conclude the guy was given more than a remote chance to comply.

    "DROP IT!! DROP IT!!! BAMMM!" isn't going to work more than 1 time out of 100, and probably only by accident when the guy is so shocked he drops it out of instinct.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The only thing the GJ decision demonstrates is that a certain group of people did not believe there was enough evidence to charge to the officer. It doesn't reveal anything about the facts (added on edit) Their only job is to decide if there's enough evidence to charge the officer with a criminal offense. Their job is not deciding if it was good police work.

    The facts are that a man who did not do anything criminal or that presented an imminent danger to anyone was shot while dropping his weapon as ordered.

    And arguing that they had, or might have had, more evidence is just speculation. I will base my opinions on the evidence that is available.
    So you know more than the GJ? We are not debating the quality or lack of, as it pertains to the policing. The thread title is about the officers involved not being indicted. Your premise seems to be, and i could be wrong, but it seems like you'd be all for ignoring the lack of indictment and trying them anyway?
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It looks to me like a borderline execution, and incredibly poorly handled, and I wouldn't have the cops who killed him on any force I was responsible for, but even with all that, I'm not sure I'd have voted to indict the officers. He WAS holding a gun and they did have a caller making up facts about the guy that likely had a big influence on how they interpreted what they saw. And when the guy came flying back around the corner, it was threatening. Bottom line is there's a big difference in my view between just awful police work, and an officer with a hair trigger who treated the suspect more like a combatant in war than a citizen of the U.S. and a criminal act that should send the officer to jail for many years. Looked like a perfect storm of awful decisions by several people with good intentions with a tragic outcome.

    But in a civil suit, knowing what I've seen on the video, this would be a simple decision for the plaintiff, the victim's family. The only question is how $much.
    So are you for a police force that hesitates?
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you know more than the GJ?
    I know that it's not the GJ's job to judge whether the police officer performed well.

    We are not debating the quality or lack of, as it pertains to the policing.
    Actually, we are. You may not be, but others are.


    The thread title is about the officers involved not being indicted. Your premise seems to be, and i could be wrong, but it seems like you'd be all for ignoring the lack of indictment and trying them anyway?
    Yes, the thread title is about the officer not being indicted. The discussion is a little broader.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So are you for a police force that hesitates?
    100% for a police force that "hesitates" before they shoot to kill.

    In this case, the suspect had not fired his gun, hadn't directly threatened anyone, held no one hostage, there was no civilian anywhere near him. It was ONE suspect and a team of police armed with assault rifles. If police can't "hesitate" in this instance, then we give them free rein to kill with the slightest provocation, whenever they are less than 100% sure of a suspect's intentions. Put your hand in your pocket at the wrong time - dead. Etc. That's OK in a war zone, but not in a Walmart in the U.S.

    Just curious - if that was your son, do you back up the police there?

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    100% for a police force that "hesitates" before they shoot to kill.

    In this case, the suspect had not fired his gun, hadn't directly threatened anyone, held no one hostage, there was no civilian anywhere near him. It was ONE suspect and a team of police armed with assault rifles. If police can't "hesitate" in this instance, then we give them free rein to kill with the slightest provocation, whenever they are less than 100% sure of a suspect's intentions. Put your hand in your pocket at the wrong time - dead. Etc. That's OK in a war zone, but not in a Walmart in the U.S.

    Just curious - if that was your son, do you back up the police there?
    If it was my son, I'd have raised him to have a bit of sense, and not do something so stupid as to carry what looks like a lethal weapon, swinging it in a discount store. My son would not have gotten himself shot, unless he was being unreasonable, or was incapable of logical reasoning.

    I think it's horrible that he was shot, but otoh, you don't charge a police officer, and expect him not to react as he has been trained.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    If it was my son, I'd have raised him to have a bit of sense, and not do something so stupid as to carry what looks like a lethal weapon, swinging it in a discount store. My son would not have gotten himself shot, unless he was being unreasonable, or was incapable of logical reasoning.

    I think it's horrible that he was shot, but otoh, you don't charge a police officer, and expect him not to react as he has been trained.
    I'm sure we all agree that any child you raise would never behave in anything but the most perfect of ways, but let's pretend it's possible that a child of yours, in a moment of weakness or youthful exuberance, actually did something that was less than perfect.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm sure we all agree that any child you raise would never behave in anything but the most perfect of ways, but let's pretend it's possible that a child of yours, in a moment of weakness or youthful exuberance, actually did something that was less than perfect.
    As a matter of fact, my own son was far from perfect. Fortunately, it didn't get him killed, because he knew not to put himself in that position. Any other tidbits of wisdom you can give to me?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    If it was my son, I'd have raised him to have a bit of sense, and not do something so stupid as to carry what looks like a lethal weapon, swinging it in a discount store. My son would not have gotten himself shot, unless he was being unreasonable, or was incapable of logical reasoning.

    I think it's horrible that he was shot, but otoh, you don't charge a police officer, and expect him not to react as he has been trained.
    Give me a break, that's extremely weak, avoiding the question by blaming the victim who committed no crime at all and was carrying a BB/pellet gun he picked up in the Walmart while talking on the phone. Pathetic. Seriously.

    And unless you're in that situation, I can't believe you'd blame someone for not acting rationally when one second he's talking on the phone, the next he's been SHOT while doing nothing wrong.

    Finally, if you want a police force that believes the correct approach in that situation is "DROP IT DROP IT BAMMM!" in as long as it takes to say that as quickly as you can, good luck. I want no part of society that accepts that is the role of a police officer not in a war zone.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I think it's horrible that he was shot, but otoh, you don't charge a police officer, and expect him not to react as he has been trained.
    Then perhaps we need to train police offers to be a little less trigger happy.

    Here are the accounts of the police officers Officer narratives released in Beavercreek Walmart shooting | www.whio.com

    They claim he failed to comply with multiple commands to drop the weapon and that he turned towards the police in an aggressive manner. None of that is supported by the surveillance video. They give him less than two seconds to drop the gun before firing.
    Last edited by aseidner; 10-01-14 at 10:58 PM.

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