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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

  1. #221
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If by "he", you're referring to the caller, he was without a doubt wrong. The caller made claims that are clearly false.

    Crawford did not fumble with the gun, did not try to load it and did not point it anyone in the video.

    And I did not say that eyewitnesses should not be considered. However, what they say should not be considered the truth simply because they were there and said it happened. As the video shows, people's perceptions are not always accurate.
    It matters not if the caller was correct. This is what he *believed* he was seeing. There's a distinction there...just like *I* saw a man fumbling with a gun* and you dont. So....factually,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa
    It was concerning enough for someone to call 911. Is he wrong too?
    There is a distinction between 'mistake' and 'wrong.' IMO, he was not wrong about many things, including his perceptions of the man's behavior.

    These are the circumstances that many 911 callers are under. Dispatchers and police know this. And were you privy to exactly what info the dispatcher gave the police? Exactly what presumptions they went in with? They dont hear the 911 call.

    No one disputes the police should assess the situation themselves, but it's petty to criticize the caller who acted IMO correctly and interpreted events *as he saw them.* The caller was alarmed by the guy's behavior....it was not remotely normal from what I saw for behavior in a retail store.
    Last edited by Lursa; 09-30-14 at 01:13 PM.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #222
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It matters not if the caller was correct. This is what he *believed* he was seeing. There's a distinction there...just like *I* saw a man fumbling with a gun* and you dont. So....factually,
    I don't care what he believed. My focus is on the police and the police are not supposed to believe whatever they are told.



    There is a distinction between 'mistake' and 'wrong.' IMO, he was not wrong about many things, including his perceptions of the man's behavior.
    He was clearly wrong about the man's behavior.

    These are the circumstances that many 911 callers are under. Dispatchers and police know this. And were you privy to exactly what info the dispatcher gave the police? Exactly what presumptions they went in with? They dont hear the 911 call.
    Again, the police are not supposed to shoot someone because of their presumptions. They are supposed to shoot only if a person presents an imminent threat. Crawford posed no such threat

    No one disputes the police should assess the situation themselves, but it's petty to criticize the caller who acted IMO correctly and interpreted events *as he saw them.*
    I suggest you continue reading through the thread. Pay close attention to the recent reports about this caller. He has a penchant for dishonesty
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't care what he believed. My focus is on the police and the police are not supposed to believe whatever they are told.

    He was clearly wrong about the man's behavior.

    Again, the police are not supposed to shoot someone because of their presumptions. They are supposed to shoot only if a person presents an imminent threat. Crawford posed no such threat

    I suggest you continue reading through the thread. Pay close attention to the recent reports about this caller. He has a penchant for dishonesty
    Really? I'm not aware that the dead guy's mental state, psychiatric records, or autopsy has been released.

    I dont care what the reports about the caller are....you seem to like ignoring the fact that the video shows a man acting in a disturbing manner. I see it, other people see it. You dont see it? Good for you. That does not make you right.

    The mother that took her kids and immediately left the area....she's got a reputation for falsely accusing people of threatening behavior too?

    And while I didnt dispute the police's actions, I didnt see you tell me how much they knew about the guy with the gun....how much info from the caller was relayed to them. Do you know?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No police departments need to start wearing shiney shoes again, and dump the combat gear. It's going to their heads. There is no way that officer gave the guy time to put his weapon down unless they deleted video. The guy is standing there and next he's down. That was like one second. Who can react that fast. First you have to realize that an officer is even talking to you. If you're minding your own business, and a cop start shouting you don't even know it's you they're shouting at. It's not like the guy baracaded himself in the store, and then cops came pouring in. He's standing in the pet aisle looking at a shelf of pet food. If you heard yelling would you immediately assuming it's you being yelled at? You'd look up to see what's going on. Based that video you'd have been shot already before realizing they are talking to you.
    I quit reading at "give him time" to put down what looks every bit like a real gun. I got money that says the first words were, "drop the gun". He didn't. And without audio you have no clue what was said.
    Oh, and seems the 911 caller is back tracking as well. He should be charged.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? I'm not aware that the dead guy's mental state, psychiatric records, or autopsy has been released.
    Those all are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if he was posing an imminent threat

    He wasn't

    I dont care what the reports about the caller are....you seem to like ignoring the fact that the video shows a man acting in a disturbing manner. I see it, other people see it. You dont see it? Good for you. That does not make you right.
    You just got done arguing that the callers reports were a valid reason for the police thinking the man posed a threat. Now you're saying you don't care what the caller said.

    And it doesn't matter if anyone was "disturbed" The only thing that matters is if he was posing an imminent threat

    He wasn't
    The mother that took her kids and immediately left the area....she's got a reputation for falsely accusing people of threatening behavior too?
    She didn't accuse him of threatening anyone, and she didn't immediately leave the area. She was there for ten seconds. After she left Crawfords sight, she left the store and then went back in. Pretty odd behavior for a woman who thought a man with a gun had just threatened her. Maybe the police should have shot her too

    Oh wait! They didn't have to shoot her. She died of a heart attack that was caused not by the fright of being threatened by a strange man pointing a rifle at her (which never happened) but because she was scared by the police shooting a man she was not afraid of.

    And while I didnt dispute the police's actions, I didnt see you tell me how much they knew about the guy with the gun....how much info from the caller was relayed to them. Do you know?
    So now you're back to arguing that what the caller said does matter!
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I quit reading at "give him time" to put down what looks every bit like a real gun. I got money that says the first words were, "drop the gun". He didn't. And without audio you have no clue what was said.
    Oh, and seems the 911 caller is back tracking as well. He should be charged.
    One second is not time to place a weapon down.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    One second is not time to place a weapon down.
    Not saying its not a bad deal, but there is way more than a over zealous cop in play here.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Not saying its not a bad deal, but there is way more than a over zealous cop in play here.
    You don't know that.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Those all are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if he was posing an imminent threat

    He wasn't

    Irrelevant to any point I have attempted to make. You keep repeating it for that reason...because it seems 'right'. That's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You just got done arguing that the callers reports were a valid reason for the police thinking the man posed a threat. Now you're saying you don't care what the caller said.
    Taken in context, my statement meant that it doesnt matter what the caller said, *I also saw many of the same things on the video.* It was a confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And it doesn't matter if anyone was "disturbed" The only thing that matters is if he was posing an imminent threat

    He wasn't
    Irrelevant to any point I have attempted to make. You keep repeating it for that reason...because it seems 'right'. That's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    She didn't accuse him of threatening anyone, and she didn't immediately leave the area. She was there for ten seconds. After she left Crawfords sight, she left the store and then went back in. Pretty odd behavior for a woman who thought a man with a gun had just threatened her. Maybe the police should have shot her too
    This is beneath you but it speaks to desperation. I never said she accused him of anything....nor implied it. Dont make stuff up. When we see odd behavior...sometimes we assess it before we act. Sometimes, impressions are cumulative. If she didnt feel threatened, she obviously found his behavior abnormal...and left. Her actions demonstrate her concern. When I see disturbing or even weird behavior, I often wait to see what's up. Are they on the phone and I cant see it? Are there other people I cant see? Etc.

    As I said, several people here also saw abnormal behavior from the guy with the gun. Not just her, not just the caller. Your assumptions about 'everyone else's' perceptions are wrong. That is a fact, since we are stating them clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Oh wait! They didn't have to shoot her. She died of a heart attack that was caused not by the fright of being threatened by a strange man pointing a rifle at her (which never happened) but because she was scared by the police shooting a man she was not afraid of.
    Really? And the cause was confirmed by what medical examiner's report?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #230
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Irrelevant to any point I have attempted to make. You keep repeating it for that reason...because it seems 'right'. That's nice.
    Not because it seems right. Because it's standard police policy and for good reason.


    Taken in context, my statement meant that it doesnt matter what the caller said, *I also saw many of the same things on the video.* It was a confirmation.
    What someone imagines they see is irrelevant.


    Irrelevant to any point I have attempted to make. You keep repeating it for that reason...because it seems 'right'. That's nice.
    I keep repeating it because it's true


    This is beneath you but it speaks to desperation. I never said she accused him of anything....nor implied it. Dont make stuff up.
    Here is what you said
    The mother that took her kids and immediately left the area....she's gotat a reputation for falsely accusing people of threatening behavior too?
    She did not leave the area immediately and when she left, she left her daughter behind. And I responded to your question about her reputation by pointing out that she didn't have such a reputation because she make *any* accusations.

    When we see odd behavior...sometimes we assess it before we act. Sometimes, impressions are cumulative. If she didnt feel threatened, she obviously found his behavior abnormal...and left. Her actions demonstrate her concern. When I see disturbing or even weird behavior, I often wait to see what's up. Are they on the phone and I cant see it? Are there other people I cant see? Etc.
    Crawford did nothing in front of the police (before he was shot) that was odd or threatening.

    And she never said anything about Crawfords behavior being odd (because she died at the scene) so now you're just making stuff up.

    And how does her going back into the store with her children demonstrate that she was concerned about Crawford? When you are concerned about an "odd" man with a gun, do you bring your children to see what he's going to do?

    As I said, several people here also saw abnormal behavior from the guy with the gun. Not just her, not just the caller. Your assumptions about 'everyone else's' perceptions are wrong. That is a fact, since we are stating them clearly.
    I don't care what a million people think they saw.

    Really? And the cause was confirmed by what medical examiner's report?
    Yeah, the fact she died while running after shots were fired is just a coincidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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